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This is a discussion on Alignment basics within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag Probably about -1.3. no more than that in the front?...

  1. #121
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlkWRXWag View Post
    Probably about -1.3.
    no more than that in the front?

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  3. #122
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImprezaMeWith View Post
    First off great sticky and thanks for all the advice.
    I decided to get my 04 wrx wagon aligned today. Yesterday I put on my new wheels 17x8 with 225 45 tires. The car before had a slight pull to the left.
    My specs b4:
    Camber:
    FL: 0.0 FR: -0.1
    RL: -1.0 RR: -1.5

    Toe:
    FL: .20 FR: -.20
    RL: .05 RR: -.10

    Now
    Camber:
    FL: -0.1 FR: -0.3
    RL: -1.0 RR: -1.5

    Toe:
    FL: 0.0 FR: 0.0
    RL: .05 RR: -.10

    I told the guy to get max neg. camber in the front, which would be -1.0 - -1.5. If there are any problems just loosen the lower strut bolt. They said they tried loosening them and couldn't get it.
    I just realized it says sedan not wagon on the report. Maybe that could have given me issues? But the specs on page 1 seem to be pretty similar. I have a very slight pull to the left which isn't that bad, I think I'm just being anal.
    Is it ok for the camber to be off from side to side or should they be identical?

    Thanks,
    Tony
    Tony- look at your sheet agian is the right rear camber -.10 or -1.0- big difference if it's -.10 you have something bent/broke in the rear

    oe rear camber should be in the -1.5 range, even your left rear is out of spec. you are a definite candidate for camber bolts in the rear.

    they definitely messed up the front camber (it's in oe spec, but no where near max)- they definitely did not fully loosen the bottom bolts or they don't understand how the upper eccentric bolt works.

    efmd -1.3 is about the max you'll see w/ oe eccentric bolt (occasionaly a tenth or two more, but often a couple of tenths less as well). As your lowered you might expect to see a tenth or two more neg, but not much more- your not going to know until they get it up on the rack and give it a go. You can tweak out a tenth or two more if they let you help by pushing the top of the tire in and pulling the bottom of the tire out- this takes a lot of effort ie you'll be trembling by the time he gets it snugged up when you can relax your push/pull- ask me how I know
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  4. #123
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    efmd -1.3 is about the max you'll see w/ oe eccentric bolt (occasionaly a tenth or two more, but often a couple of tenths less as well). As your lowered you might expect to see a tenth or two more neg, but not much more- your not going to know until they get it up on the rack and give it a go. You can tweak out a tenth or two more if they let you help by pushing the top of the tire in and pulling the bottom of the tire out- this takes a lot of effort ie you'll be trembling by the time he gets it snugged up when you can relax your push/pull- ask me how I know
    thanks bigsky, i've told my mech to do -1.3 camber all around (the rear isn't adj. i know, but last time it was aligned it was -1.3 L and -1.2 R.)
    i'll be putting on my camber plates later this summer after i get the turbo swap completed.
    As for caster, I'm no good at geometry and I assume if the cross camber is eliminated then resulting caster should be fine.
    toe, i've decided will be as close to 0.00 as possible, all the way around.

  5. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    Tony- look at your sheet agian is the right rear camber -.10 or -1.0- big difference if it's -.10 you have something bent/broke in the rear

    oe rear camber should be in the -1.5 range, even your left rear is out of spec. you are a definite candidate for camber bolts in the rear.

    they definitely messed up the front camber (it's in oe spec, but no where near max)- they definitely did not fully loosen the bottom bolts or they don't understand how the upper eccentric bolt works.
    Hey Big Sky,
    I think you got confused. The -.10 is the toe. But I called the shop today because they didn't even center the steering wheel. It's at like 11:30 instead of 12 o'clock(angle of wheel) when I go straight. I also told them they had to loosen the bolts to adjust camber and I guess they tried.
    Anyways when I spoke with them they said to come by tomorrow morning and they'll work everything out to my specific specs. They said if I know how to adjust the camber I can come and do it for them, pretty cool I guess.
    Thanks for the input,
    Tony

  6. #125
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ImprezaMeWith View Post
    Hey Big Sky,
    I think you got confused. The -.10 is the toe. But I called the shop today because they didn't even center the steering wheel. It's at like 11:30 instead of 12 o'clock(angle of wheel) when I go straight. I also told them they had to loosen the bolts to adjust camber and I guess they tried.
    Anyways when I spoke with them they said to come by tomorrow morning and they'll work everything out to my specific specs. They said if I know how to adjust the camber I can come and do it for them, pretty cool I guess.
    Thanks for the input,
    Tony
    sounds like the guy thinks he knows more than he does.
    that's the kind of thing i say when i'm pissed off that someone knows more than me...

  7. #126
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    yup- I definitely looked at the wrong line


    re-looking at it (correctly I hope this time) I'd say your still a candidate for rear camber bolts- .5 is pushing it for cross camber

    I'd split the difference in the rear (w/ camber bolts) and shoot for -1.2ish- combined w/ -1.3ish up front should make for nice handling car

    adjusting the front camber is a breeze- simply loosen (fully) both strut bolts- w/ a 19mm wrench rotate the upper bolt and watch the camber change on the screen- it will go from roughly .5 positve to -1.3 negative

    if you can only eek out say -1.1 on one side and say -1.4 on the other- go to the -1.1 to maintain a 0 cross
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  8. #127
    Registered User AgentH's Avatar
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    Just to be safe, what size camber bolts work in the rear? Oakos.com and boxer4racing.com both have 14mm bolts. Are those the right ones? My goal is to eliminate cross camber in the rear.

    Thanks!
    2nd WRX...
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  9. #128
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    14mm is correct- it's a little bit of a misnomer in that it's actually a 12mm bolt w/ a eccentric lobe, but the fact that it replaces a 14mm bolt makes it 14mm
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  10. #129
    Registered User AgentH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    14mm is correct- it's a little bit of a misnomer in that it's actually a 12mm bolt w/ a eccentric lobe, but the fact that it replaces a 14mm bolt makes it 14mm
    Cool. I saw somewhere that it is 12mm, so that was what confused me.

    Ok, so somewhere I read that you put it in the opposite hole as the front. So instead of the top, do you put it in the bottom hole? I wouldn't think it would matter.
    2nd WRX...
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  11. #130
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    in the rear you want them in the upper hole.

    in the front your upper oe bolts are eccentric- makes no sense to replace those (plus it's a bigger hole)

    if you want more camber than the oe front bolt allows you can use the aftermarket bolt in the lower hole- essentially two camber bolts in the front then

    the "trick" in the front (rear too) is is to insure the aftermarket bolt is orientated (Whiteline has pdf's you can download showing this) correctly- one accomodates positive camber, the other neg- it's VERY common to get these a$$ backwards and ofcourse you get the opposite results than you expected.

    in the front you orientate the lower bolt positive (even though you want more neg camber) as your moving the lower portion of the knuckle outward (while the top bolt is tiliting the upper knuckle inward)- this combination gives the max neg camber
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  12. #131
    Registered User AgentH's Avatar
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    Do I need special camber bolts for non-slotted holes? IE for the rears? I was looking around and someone listed a set for sale as "rear camber bolts" or something like that. I want to know before I find out the hardway!

    And are there Manufacturer's camber bolts to avoid? Like, ones made w/cheap steel or ones that rust easy?
    2nd WRX...
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  13. #132
    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentH View Post
    Do I need special camber bolts for non-slotted holes? IE for the rears?

    And are there Manufacturer's camber bolts to avoid?
    Yes.

    They look like this:



    I wouldn't think that you would need to avoid any types. They're more than likely made by the same company anyway.
    This message printed on 100% recycled electrons.

  14. #133
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    I think the vast majority are manufactured by the same outfit and simply "rebranded"- I haven't heard of any to stay away from personally
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  15. #134
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    I'm off to get an alignment tomorrow... We can look at the before and after print outs on friday if you want. Talk to you soon.
    -Josh

  16. #135
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    sounds good
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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