Project wagon begins! - Page 61
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This is a discussion on Project wagon begins! within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; it's 1.25" , it's about as low as you can go w/o the roll center really migrating- even a 10mm ...

  1. #901
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    it's 1.25" , it's about as low as you can go w/o the roll center really migrating- even a 10mm drop will cause it to go "south", but it appears that after ~ 1.25" it really starts to go. Just another reinforcer that the Impreza is "sensitive" to lowering- straight from the manufacturer
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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  3. #902
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    Got a little suprise yesterday- went to put on my new "24mm" adj front bar and looks like they sent me a 27mm adj one- so I decided to put it in anyways

    It's a beefy bar, the bar is 27+mm, but tapers down to 24mm on the ends to allow the bar to fit the oe mounts. I did what I did last time and enlarged the hole in the oe bushings (not overly keen on poly bushings- noise wise).

    The little "step" from 27mm->24mm provided just enough room to put my sway collars on







    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 22adjvs27adj.jpg   22mmwcalipers.jpg   centerportion27mmbar.jpg   oebushingvswhiteline.jpg   27mmadjinstalled.jpg  

    Last edited by Big Sky WRX; 05-01-2007 at 06:33 AM.
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  4. #903
    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    Mike, welcome to the land of big front bar. Try the 29mm setting it's nice!

    Also I haven't had any noise problems with the Whiteline bushings. My front adjustable endlinks are another story.
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  5. #904
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    So when you pick it's right front paw up, with a bar that stiff, does it just roll over and waive its feet in the air?

    In other words, does the suspension move independently at all?

    Also, I'm reading Shelby's book right now. Studying the part about how unequal lateral load affects grip, it occurs to wonder if our common understanding about how rear sway bars affect our cars is correct. The thing that gives me pause is that the decrease in grip with unequal loading doesn't seem to happen fast enough to give rise to the large handling change. It makes me wonder if 80% of the effect of a RSB isn't actually about keeping the front end from going to the bad place on the camber curve (i.e. reducing front end roll via chassis torsional rigidity by increasing the roll resistance of the rear end).

  6. #905
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    I do believe lots of folks are running too big a rear bar, I also believe that a lot of folks aren't running a big enough front bar. With our rather poor camber curves, a larger front bar will increase grip up front.

    Typically where the wheels are lifting is in the rear. A too large of rear bar is often at fault, not always.

    I think your correct, a larger rear bar will contribute to improving the camber curve, a front bar will do it more effectively.

    If you look through the thread (it's probably too long now ) I've slowly progressed through sway bars- from stock (20/17), to 20/20 to 21/21 to 22adj/22adj (found the firmest setting up front and the middle setting in the rear to be closest to optimum for me) and now w/ this large front bar and same rear bar. I feel my rear bar is large enough (w/ no plans of changing it at this juncture), wanted to try yet a larger front bar- I only wanted to go up "one step" to a 24mm adj bar, but will give this bar a fair shake first. I might have easily ended up at this point anyways.

    I do know that some of the national autox contenders have increased spring rates quite a bit and some have now started to decrease swaybar size. Unfortunately the rates they are running would make it difficult to pass off the car as a daily driver (especially if the daily driver was your wife's ). Swaybars can help folks like that increase roll siffness, w/o the adverse effects on daily driving of very high spring rates. They do not come w/o "penalty" however, as pointed out you will be sacraficing independence of the suspension for that additional stiffness.
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  7. #906
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    Just to distract you from swaybar talk for just a tad, but I was putzing around on the internet when I came across a claim made by Crucial Racing:
    "Wagon Owners -- these are GREAT springs for you, too! The combination of our quite stiff rates and our conservative drops means absolutely positively NO 'saggy butt' disorder that is common with many aftermarket springs made specifically with the sedan in mind. Ours lack nothing whatsoever over those 'wagon specific' springs, except for the generally wimpy spring rates offered. We know wagon owners drive hard and track their cars also! The Crucial Sport Springs will outperform those others in every category, from performance to ride to looks. By focusing on performance first and keeping our drop mild, we have created a set of springs that truly performs to their maximum potential on both sedans and wagons."

    Although they are awefully boastful, has anyone run these on their wagons and not had the ill effects of "saggy butt"? F: 1.25" ~ 30mm and R: .9" ~ 20 mm
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  8. #907
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    They think 1.25" is a mild drop? Compared to what? Putting the spring from a Bic pen in there?

    Far as people with a wagon actually using them, a search turned up them being listed in one guy's mod list with no comments about them.

  9. #908
    Registered User SonicYellowWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    thought this was interesting- setup notes on the factory WRC Grp N car- tarmac rally

    http://www.subaru-sti.co.jp/e/GRN/te.../2004_rd5.html

    Grp N has to use the same pickup points, so this is a good comparo to "real life" Imprezas

    Ride heights selected are 32mm lower f/r (this is w/ Ohlin coilovers so they can select any ride height they want)- this happens to be the same ride heights I'm running

    Look at their camber settings too- basically spot on what I'm running too- looks like I'm in pretty good company

    Interesting... they're running that much TOE IN??? I've always enjoyed ample amounts of TOE OUT...

  10. #909
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    If the springs advertise 30mm drop front 20mm drop rear (guessing this is for sedan) then you won't have "saggy" butt w/ a wagon- you should have a near 30mm even drop. If they dropped 20mm/20mm for sedan, you'd likely then have "saggy butt". Basically wagon springs have a longer free length in the rear vs a sedan- on the WRX wagon pinks the free length in the rear (fronts are identical) the sedan springs are ~ 308mm long, the wagon ones ~ 320mm long.

    I'm not sure what "1" refers to in the link- 1mm???? if so very mild toe in.

    I too prefer just a wee bit of toe out
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  11. #910
    Registered User SonicYellowWRX's Avatar
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    thats true, it could very well be in "mm"... i was thinking 1 INCH, haha. i HAD a great set-up, but thats all out the window with the DCCD 6-Speed... i prefer to run the rear sway bar at full stiff with similar camber settings as you, but its a constant battle with oversteer on my car. i just hope i don't have to shell out more money to get it how i want. ie different springs or larger front sway...

  12. #911
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    I'd love to have a front lsd If your front bar is the stocker, I think you'd benefit from a front bar irregardless.
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  13. #912
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    hey, i would love the front LSD too... im waiting on my dccd controller to arrive so I can finally use it!

    i have the Cusco bar up front and rear. i don't think i would want to go any bigger cuz of the reduction of independent travel is quite noticeable already.

    so, how's the 27mm bar treatin' ya?

  14. #913
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    ^^^^ ditto, I am dying to know how your digging that 27mm bar. I have been reading here and nasioc on all of the hoopla about that thing...I am curious.
    Thanks

  15. #914
    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    I am a firm believer in the big front bar. I have mine on the 29mm setting.
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  16. #915
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    Basically wagon springs have a longer free length in the rear vs a sedan- on the WRX wagon pinks the free length in the rear (fronts are identical) the sedan springs are ~ 308mm long, the wagon ones ~ 320mm long.
    I'm interested in getting a firmer spring in the back of my wagon that gives me at the very least no drop, ideally a little raise to get the car to sit level.

    A great deal of my time is spent being a hooligan in the dirt and I'd like the added suspension travel. If the pink wagons are the same length as stock with higher rates shouldn't the car sit higher?

    Any other stiffer springs you know of that don't provide a drop? This is on an 02 wagon.

    thanks.

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