'13 Hatch Suspension
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 16

This is a discussion on '13 Hatch Suspension within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Having had the WRX for a little over a week now and having read a number of posts here regarding ...

  1. #1
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    249

    '13 Hatch Suspension

    Having had the WRX for a little over a week now and having read a number of posts here regarding tuning/adjustment/mods, I have a couple concerns and questions.

    My primary concern is that the overall suspension system is too soft, particularly in the front and that there is too much understeer. While I have not taken it too the track (and am still breaking in the motor and getting acquainted with the car over-all) and don't intend to, weekend driving on winding mountain roads proved fun but with room for improvement/more tuned to my preferences. I don't care that much how rough the ride is so long as she's glued to the asphalt and whips corners.

    I have seen it recommended a number of times that tires/alignment be addressed before all else. I certainly will be buying higher quality tires--something I am partial to as I understand the importance of high quality rubber. And the OE seem to have a surprisingly soft sidewall. It's been mentioned that the stock alignment is not great, though. What recommendations are made to improve this? More aggressive (positive?) castor? Slightly positive camber? I see the Whiteline ALK gives a +0.5 camber. How is the beneficial to handling vs. added abuse/uneven wear to the tires? With how loose the front end feels, this may be an early mod for me given that reviews and comments I've seen here about the ALK are very positive.

    All I can find confirmed (and without crawling around with a tape) is that my WRX has "stabilizer bars" in front and rear. Are these the same size sways as on previous models? 20mmF/17mmR? Has anyone here tested handling/performance responsiveness with stock sways+STB vs larger sways alone?

    Anyone have any idea as to the OE spring rates?

    I have not noticed much said about under-body stiffening braces; are they worth the money early on in modding? Or at all?

    All I've seen for alignment adjustments is camber bolts but not actually any plates. Are there any specific to this model year or can I get away with OE top hats and camber bolts?

  2. Remove Advertisements
    ClubWRX.net
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,071
    Yes, adjusting camber will help a lot from all of the posts I read. I think I saw the rear sway bar was even 16 mm, but I cannot confirm that.

    Most people tend to go right for the whiteline sways 24f 22r. I will likely do the same... I do get tired of the roll the car has.

    I had just started a thread and asked about tires and what people liked on them.

    No idea on spring rates or any of that. I know RCE had released their new black springs which are a progressive spring that lets the car be comfortable at normal speed, but tightens as it is pushed more. People seem to like these because they can be used with the stock struts (though some claim the time they can be used is limited) which is a plus for those of us who don't have loads of money to dump into all of the mods we would all like to get.

    Other's can answer your more technical questions, as i'm just a read the reviews and go with what gets rated the best lol.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

  4. #3
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    249
    I put progressive rate springs on the front of my previous car. They were definitely a fun adjustment for the reasons you mentioned: soft enough for driving, get stiffer as they compress. But, unfortunately, for this same reason, they way in which they respond is less reliable or predictable than a constant rate spring. For this reason, and they way I intend on driving this WRX, I want the predictability of a constant rate spring.
    Thanks for the input, Methodical4u!

  5. #4
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a stream bank somewhere
    Posts
    19,863
    I Support ClubWRX
    Tires are the only thing that touch the road. If they lose grip, it doesn't matter how much $$ you have in your suspension, handling is all about grip.

    The factory alignment "sucks" because it is meant to make the car understeer, as a safety feature. If you enter a corner too fast, your car will push towards the curb/ditch vs oncoming traffic. An alignment can give you additional negative camber up front (which will help maintain grip) when the suspension goes under load.

    I love my ALK, but if you have any intention of any motorsports participation, be weary; it kills your classing. Personally, I don't care what class I'm in, since I don't participate in enough events to compete, and I only care about self-improvement.

    There are a lot of routes you can go, but some of my general beliefs:
    1) Tires & Alignment > Parts
    2) Dampers should be matched to your spring rate (Koni Yellows are nice because it allows adjustments, and can handle stiffer springs well)
    3) Rough body roll tuning should be done with struts/springs, and fine tuning should be done with swaybars
    4) Modify according to how the car is going to be used (no point in buying a track suspension for a car that will only see public roadways)
    Last edited by EJ257; 07-29-2013 at 03:47 PM.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  6. #5
    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Southeastern PA
    Posts
    31,263
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Tires are the only thing that touch the road. If they lose grip, it doesn't matter how much $$ you have in your suspension, handling is all about grip.

    The factory alignment "sucks" because it is meant to make the car oversteer, as a safety feature. If you enter a corner too fast, your car will push towards the curb/ditch vs oncoming traffic. An alignment can give you additional negative camber up front (which will help maintain grip) when the suspension goes under load.
    Understeer maybe?
    Moderator for: Aftermarket Vendor & Installer Review / Detailing Forum / Engine Modifications / Exterior & Appearance
    New Member Hangout / Off Topic / Tri-State
    ScoobyDMC #003 Blobeye Syndicate #10
    2004 WRX Sedan PSM 5MT Tactrix Stage 2+ Blouch TD04 19T @ 21 psi
    Mods & Pics

  7. #6
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a stream bank somewhere
    Posts
    19,863
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch
    Understeer maybe?
    Yes, understeer. Sorry, it's been a long day...
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  8. #7
    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Southeastern PA
    Posts
    31,263
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Yes, understeer. Sorry, it's been a long day...
    NP, just waking you up. Or something.
    Moderator for: Aftermarket Vendor & Installer Review / Detailing Forum / Engine Modifications / Exterior & Appearance
    New Member Hangout / Off Topic / Tri-State
    ScoobyDMC #003 Blobeye Syndicate #10
    2004 WRX Sedan PSM 5MT Tactrix Stage 2+ Blouch TD04 19T @ 21 psi
    Mods & Pics

  9. #8
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a stream bank somewhere
    Posts
    19,863
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch
    NP, just waking you up. Or something.
    My description of the condition was accurate, just my condition was wrong. I'm going to bed in about an hour...
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  10. #9
    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Southeastern PA
    Posts
    31,263
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    My description of the condition was accurate, just my condition was wrong. I'm going to bed in about an hour...
    Very much correct. Nighty-night.
    Moderator for: Aftermarket Vendor & Installer Review / Detailing Forum / Engine Modifications / Exterior & Appearance
    New Member Hangout / Off Topic / Tri-State
    ScoobyDMC #003 Blobeye Syndicate #10
    2004 WRX Sedan PSM 5MT Tactrix Stage 2+ Blouch TD04 19T @ 21 psi
    Mods & Pics

  11. #10
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Silicon Valley
    Posts
    249
    Except your description of the condition is only accurate in a left-hand turn situation. A right-hand turn at speed with understeer and you're in somebody else's lane. How much negative camber are we talking about to mitigate this OE design? I've read that stiffer rear sway can greatly assist in creating oversteer (reducing understeer; depending how you look at it/the level of effect?) ? Wouldn't this be a preferred modification to adjusting the alignment? Seems to me that, at least on decent to high-quality roads, maintaining an even camber (+/-0.0) and doing other bolt-on mods would be the most beneficial and least detrimental to the overall well being of the car and tires. Thoughts here?

  12. #11
    MAINEiac 11blackSTi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Land of the Port. ME
    Posts
    2,904
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    Except your description of the condition is only accurate in a left-hand turn situation. A right-hand turn at speed with understeer and you're in somebody else's lane. How much negative camber are we talking about to mitigate this OE design? I've read that stiffer rear sway can greatly assist in creating oversteer (reducing understeer; depending how you look at it/the level of effect?) ? Wouldn't this be a preferred modification to adjusting the alignment? Seems to me that, at least on decent to high-quality roads, maintaining an even camber (+/-0.0) and doing other bolt-on mods would be the most beneficial and least detrimental to the overall well being of the car and tires. Thoughts here?
    -1.5 camber up front and maxed out in the back. It won't negatively effect tire wear (toe is really what you want to avoid and what eats tires).

  13. #12
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    On a stream bank somewhere
    Posts
    19,863
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks
    Except your description of the condition is only accurate in a left-hand turn situation. A right-hand turn at speed with understeer and you're in somebody else's lane.
    True

    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks
    How much negative camber are we talking about to mitigate this OE design?
    Max out the negative camber on the front bolts. Typically, you can get -1.2-1.5. Rear camber isn't adjustable on your car, without more expensive modifications (older cars just required camber bolts).

    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks
    I've read that stiffer rear sway can greatly assist in creating oversteer (reducing understeer; depending how you look at it/the level of effect?) ? Wouldn't this be a preferred modification to adjusting the alignment? Seems to me that, at least on decent to high-quality roads, maintaining an even camber (+/-0.0) and doing other bolt-on mods would be the most beneficial and least detrimental to the overall well being of the car and tires. Thoughts here?
    Incorrect. While the rear end kicks out more, the front is still pushing wide.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  14. #13
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,071
    I'll say this... which this is mostly a braking issue. I have SS lines... actually I have the goodridge phantom lines which are "supposed" to be the better/best of many of them. Either way I was going to my Wife's work to pick her up one evening and I caught a light yellow that at times can take forever. I knew I had time to get through it, so I went ahead and sped up and there is a bit of a hump in the road and then a left hand turn. All I remember is the brake pedal kicking back as I was applying them and how the car just felt all out of balance. I don't have pads yet, but that made me seriously consider getting pads before the sway bars.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

  15. #14
    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Southeastern PA
    Posts
    31,263
    I Support ClubWRX
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Max out the negative camber on the front bolts. Typically, you can get -1.2-1.5. Rear camber isn't adjustable on your car, without more expensive modifications (older cars just required camber bolts).
    I've run as much as -2.0 F/R without significant adverse tire wear. Think I'm at -1.6 now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Methodical4u View Post
    I'll say this... which this is mostly a braking issue. I have SS lines... actually I have the goodridge phantom lines which are "supposed" to be the better/best of many of them. Either way I was going to my Wife's work to pick her up one evening and I caught a light yellow that at times can take forever. I knew I had time to get through it, so I went ahead and sped up and there is a bit of a hump in the road and then a left hand turn. All I remember is the brake pedal kicking back as I was applying them and how the car just felt all out of balance. I don't have pads yet, but that made me seriously consider getting pads before the sway bars.
    I was disappointed in SS lines - only a minimal pedal feel difference. I put track capable Hawk HP Plus pads all around in preparation for a PDE last year. I've left them on as they increased the pedal feel and bite far more than SS lines. The only downside is I need to clean the wheels more frequently as they dust more than the previous Hawk HPS.
    Moderator for: Aftermarket Vendor & Installer Review / Detailing Forum / Engine Modifications / Exterior & Appearance
    New Member Hangout / Off Topic / Tri-State
    ScoobyDMC #003 Blobeye Syndicate #10
    2004 WRX Sedan PSM 5MT Tactrix Stage 2+ Blouch TD04 19T @ 21 psi
    Mods & Pics

  16. #15
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Md
    Posts
    1,071
    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    I've run as much as -2.0 F/R without significant adverse tire wear. Think I'm at -1.6 now.



    I was disappointed in SS lines - only a minimal pedal feel difference. I put track capable Hawk HP Plus pads all around in preparation for a PDE last year. I've left them on as they increased the pedal feel and bite far more than SS lines. The only downside is I need to clean the wheels more frequently as they dust more than the previous Hawk HPS.
    Agreed on that. Our 2012 Honda Accord LX honestly feels like it brakes better than my WRX WITH the lines. How much would you say that the new pads helped?

    On the brake dust issue, there are a few things that make that job much easier. Firstly, the armor all wheel protectant is very good for being OTC and a good pressure wash will get rid of much of the dust. Also, while many people are high on the Sonax wheel cleaner, it's very expensive, even though it is a very good product. If you look up Flash brown royal, it's I think 18$ a gallon, but their shipping is also about the same... however an equal amount of Sonax is about 80-100.00 IIRC. I have a customer I recommended the brown royal to. He has a CTS-V with very aggressive pads, rotors, tracks the car a lot, etc. He even mixes it 1:1 with water and you barely have to touch the dust with anything to get it to come right off.
    2012 WRX: TurboXS DP, AEM CAI, TP stage 2 tune

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Quick Reply Quick Reply

Register Now

Please enter the name by which you would like to log-in and be known on this site.
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.

Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Please enter a valid email address for yourself. We strongly suggest that you stay away from using aol, yahoo, msn, and hotmail accounts. Sometimes the mail server blocks the emails from our server. As a result you will not receive any notifications including the confirmation email.

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.


Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •