Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012
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This is a discussion on Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012 within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Updated Info Had gone stage2 about three weeks ago Today I finally had a chance to do a 3rd and ...

  1. #1
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Edited for updates

    Updated Info

    Had gone stage2 about three weeks ago

    Today I finally had a chance to do a 3rd and 4th gear pulls for data logging but they are a VOID as of 1:00'ish today.....

    Had a nail (I do not like the endless constructions in my area) and the rr tire was leaking....

    Went to IAG to fix the leak. .........and I left the shop three hours later with an Invidia Q300 catback exhaust. Lol

    With this addition the ecu had to be flashed again with the SLWG map.... Boosting to 20.5lbs again..... The target boost is 18.5. Nice of IAG the tech caught it, road tested after the reflash before returning the keys

    In my three weeks driving stage2, I noticed the ecu "learns" and was impressed how it adjusted to the previous map, the LWG map, in about 600 miles of driving - it never spiked again and stayed at 18 psi of boost

    Now with the SLWG map the boost is spiking a little shy of 20lbs 19.5lbs or so. I guess the extra flow from the catback is having an impact

    Well I will take it easy as usual and wait for an opportunity to data log soon.

    Mod List

    Whiteline heavyduty adjustable fr/rr swaybars 24/22mm and
    Kartboy fr/rr endlinks

    SS braided brake lines fr/rr with Hawk pads

    Invidia catted dp
    Invidia Q300 exhaust with ti tips

    Cobb sf intake and box
    Cobb AP
    Stage2 SLWG 93oct map

    Lathe Werks burnt blue SS shift knob with leather insert and red stitching


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Well, just got the sus and brake components upgraded today at IAG

    Got the car in mid Oct 2012 - a 2013 wrx...... I was not "amused" with the stock "feed back and the motion control" not to mention "adequate" braking......

    First order of business: Got the front sway bar, end links and the rear sway bar, end links and braces replaced.....
    Last edited by jsBLwrx; 01-21-2013 at 04:07 PM.

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  3. #2
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    What size you go with on the sways (adjustable or fixed)?

    Other things to consider with handling (before I'd have gone with any parts, personally):
    1) Tires (while you have summer tires stock, they're not great)
    2) Alignment (this can alter the handling characteristics drastically)
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning, LLC

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

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  4. #3
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    What size you go with on the sways (adjustable or fixed)?

    Other things to consider with handling (before I'd have gone with any parts, personally):
    1) Tires (while you have summer tires stock, they're not great)
    2) Alignment (this can alter the handling characteristics drastically)

    Sorry for the delay in response to your comments

    The sways are Whiteline heavy duty 24mm adjustable front and 22mm adjustable rear. The front/rear spacers and endlinks from Kartboy were also installed

    Brakes system was slightly upgraded with front/rear Hawk HPS pads, along with the braided stainless steel lines front and back: of course the fluid was flushed and refilled with ATE super blue fluids

    As for your comment 1) Tires are good enough for my DD use - sure they are not that great in rain, but I've DD'd for three years on the same set of tires and didn't have much to complain other than being a little harsh and noisy

    2) Very good point to consider, but my issue with the car's dynamic was not related to the car being out of alignment: Generally very numb, and wandering off center; and too much body roll and sloppy swaying motions when encountering mid corner bumps or ripples....

    First impressions after driving for two hours in the last two days:

    Way improved front end feedback; sharper turn-in; less roll and no swaying issues. More importantly, the car tracks true and straight on highways, hoorraaayyyy!!

    Especially notable is the rear end's tendency to rotate and and easy to induce some oversteer on sharp turns: couldn't even bother with the stock set up: I didn't feel comfortable and trust the stock set up

    Brake feels also a whole lot better - I'm sure this is mostly due to the HPS pads, but I feel the fluids and steel lines will aid in emergency braking or hard braking scenarios.

    Lastly, the sways and endlinks appear to reduce the amount of front to rear seesawing motion during acceleration, while reducing nose diving when compared to stock

    I think this set up will work fine with the Jan stag2 upgrade and should allow me to use up the stock components for the time being:

    After the stag2 will be:

    May consider doing some interior mods (don't know where and who to source locally....)

    Intercooler upgrade along with replacing stock plastic intake manifold tubing - Aiming for late spring - summer of 2013


    Towards the end of 2013 to mid year 2014, I'm planning these mods:
    Springs and dampers
    Wheels and tires
    Brembo or STI front brake rotors/calipers
    Chasis braces

  5. #4
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    Sorry for the delay in response to your comments
    Delay? Under 24 hours isn't anything to apologize for. Plus, it's advice for you...

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    The sways are Whiteline heavy duty 24mm adjustable front and 22mm adjustable rear. The front/rear spacers and endlinks from Kartboy were also installed
    Great choice. With upgraded struts/springs, you may want to consider bumping the stiffness up.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    As for your comment 1) Tires are good enough for my DD use - sure they are not that great in rain, but I've DD'd for three years on the same set of tires and didn't have much to complain other than being a little harsh and noisy
    When they go, consider alternatives.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    2) Very good point to consider, but my issue with the car's dynamic was not related to the car being out of alignment: Generally very numb, and wandering off center; and too much body roll and sloppy swaying motions when encountering mid corner bumps or ripples....
    By altering the alignment, you change the contact patch for cornering. By upping the negative camber in the front, you increase traction, and in turn, dial out some understeer that the factory put in there.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning, LLC

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

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  6. #5
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Delay? Under 24 hours isn't anything to apologize for. Plus, it's advice for you...

    Great choice. With upgraded struts/springs, you may want to consider bumping the stiffness up.

    When they go, consider alternatives.

    By altering the alignment, you change the contact patch for cornering. By upping the negative camber in the front, you increase traction, and in turn, dial out some understeer that the factory put in there.

    Concurr with your comments and thanks . However the sways and the end links have done their job in addressing the issues I had with this car.

    I would rather not alter the geometry of the alignment on a DD car. Spring/damper upgrades will be considered much later down the road at which time the camber/caster and toe-in/out will be addressed appropriately.

    BUT I'm 40+years old and wayyyy not interested in dropping the car any at all.... So my choices in springs/dampers are pretty slim... l'm pretty happy with the stock augment set up especially now that the incremental updates appeared to have worked to resolve my concerns.

  7. #6
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Update to my modding post: 2013 WRB sedan

    Hi all,

    If you had been following my mods, I've updated my suspenders and break system
    Now, here's what I had been doing since my last post in this thread:

    3001 miles on ODO - First oil change

    Stage 2

    Got the stage two this Saturday at IAG, MD

    Cobb AP/Tuner - 93oct stage 2 OTS map
    Cobb SF with the box with the silicone tube (blue, of course)
    Invidia CATTED downpipe
    Cobb heat shield

    Debadged partially in the rear

    Driving Impressions:

    1. Very very nice especially when engaging the clutch on 1st gear - no longer blipping a little to get a nice rolling start without stalling

    2. Aural phenominon is unblievable - every input on throttle, whether bossting or vac, has a reward: It's either whooshing, silent or whistling. Once in boost, hah!! all hell breaks loose (umm my poor tranny) with the exhaust note and the intake rush and a massive psshhhh when let up.... Just amazing
    3. Pushes me in the seat when the go fast pedal is depressed to the floor - for a comparison, the last time i had this much aggression was driving a supercharged mustang gt at 11lbs of boost
    4. Gas mileage is pretty steady
    5. Drives really really hard out of corner/apex that I have to readjust my driving style

    Shock Factor:
    1. Speechless
    2. Sounds - I don't need any stereo upgrade - loving all the aural shinaniganisms from the intake and the exashaust, especially when boosting
    3. Concerns - Spikes to 20lbs of boost and settles at outrageous 18lbs of boost
    4. Acceleration - Car now tries to break traction on all four corners while rolling on 1st gear (starting at 1500 rpm or so)
    5. Concerns - May have to update the suspenders a little more, but I am going to wait since I'm DD'ing and will not be wringing the neck out of the car every time I drive

    Lastly, Subie should have made the stage2 as the stock tune for the STI....

    Thanks for viewing folks

  8. #7
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    3. Concerns - Spikes to 20lbs of boost and settles at outrageous 18lbs of boost
    This is an issue with your boost control tables. Try running the LWG version of the map, if available. If not, I'd consider making your own.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    4. Acceleration - Car now tries to break traction on all four corners while rolling on 1st gear (starting at 1500 rpm or so)
    Stock tires? What kind of temperatures are you seeing?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    Lastly, Subie should have made the stage2 as the stock tune for the STI....
    That's a common feeling.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    I would rather not alter the geometry of the alignment on a DD car.
    Why not? Without buying aftermarket parts, the only adjustment you can do to the car is in the front. By adding negative camber up front, you make the front/rear closer together (and will offer more consistent tire wear). Proper tire rotation would put the tires with a bunch more negative camber in the rear, already.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning, LLC

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

    UNYSOC

  9. #8
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012

    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    This is an issue with your boost control tables. Try running the LWG version of the map, if available. If not, I'd consider making your own.

    ****I will double check but I am on a second OTS map - the initial default map was even worse - spiked beyond 20lbs and settled at 20psi

    ********I will definitely check in the exact map used and what the target boost is



    Stock tires? What kind of temperatures are you seeing?

    ****EJ....I don't have an exact temp reading in the tires but they are stock; temp here was a mild 45+degrees, sunny and the car tried to break traction on 1st gear after having driven for 10+ miles at 70mph

    That's a common feeling.

    ****+1 on that


    Why not? Without buying aftermarket parts, the only adjustment you can do to the car is in the front. By adding negative camber up front, you make the front/rear closer together (and will offer more consistent tire wear). Proper tire rotation would put the tires with a bunch more negative camber in the rear, already.
    ****I"m a little concerned about the neg.camber and the wear&tear on uni-directional tires.... My Mustang GT mentioned before was a nightmare with tires when it was set up with the adjustable plate dialed in with a full -1x camber to compensate a 3/4 inch drop.

    ********With the minor tweaks I have on the WRX - sways & endlinks - I can live with a little push....

    **** Only concern with the suspension or dislike now with the stage2 is how much the car "see-saw's" during any aggressive accelerator input...

    ****Most importantly I will have to check on the map with Cobb and see if I can decrease the max boost to 15-16lbs

    ****Thanks for a detailed feedback!
    Last edited by jsBLwrx; 01-06-2013 at 05:59 PM.

  10. #9
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    I will double check but I am on a second OTS map - the initial default map was even worse - spiked beyond 20lbs and settled at 20psi

    I will definitely check in the exact map used and what the target boost is
    Are you running a catted or catless downpipe?

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    EJ....I don't have an exact temp reading in the tires but they are stock; temp here was a mild 45+degrees, sunny and the car tried to break traction on 1st gear after having driven for 10+ miles at 70mph
    The problem is that your car came with summer tires from the factory. The compound used in these tires is designed to work in temperatures higher than 45. Because the tires are outside their effective operating temperature range, they do not provide adequate traction.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    I"m a little concerned about the neg.camber and the wear&tear on uni-directional tires.... My Mustang GT mentioned before was a nightmare with tires when it was set up with the adjustable plate dialed in with a full -1x camber to compensate a 3/4 inch drop.
    As far as I know, you'll have -1.5 camber in the rear, and something like -.25/.5 in the front. Up the front to get more negative camber, and you'll see more "even" tire wear. Plus, you dial out some of the factory understeer (making the car more neutral) in the process.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    With the minor tweaks I have on the WRX - sways & endlinks - I can live with a little push....
    But you're still slower through the corners than a properly aligned WRX with similar mods. With the cost of an alignment, it's asinine that you don't do it, if looking for better handling

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    Only concern with the suspension or dislike now with the stage2 is how much the car "see-saw's" during any aggressive accelerator input...
    I'd bet that's a tuning issue, which can be resolved the same time as your boost spike issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by jsBLwrx
    Most importantly I will have to check on the map with Cobb and see if I can decrease the max boost to 15-16lbs
    15-16PSI boost on a S2 setup is a waste. While the VF52 will taper towards redline, you give up a good amount of torque by not going higher on the boost in the midrange. While peak numbers may be similar, your area under the curve will suffer dramatically; I typically tune S2 cars to ~18PSI peak.
    Last edited by EJ257; 01-06-2013 at 06:21 PM.
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning, LLC

    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

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  11. #10
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012

    EJ... pm sent :beer:

  12. #11
    Registered User jsBLwrx's Avatar
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    Re: Mods Began: 2500 miles on ODO since Oct 2012

    Updated Info

    Had gone stage2 about three weeks ago

    Today I finally had a chance to do a 3rd and 4th gear pulls for data logging but they are a VOID as of 1:00'ish today.....

    Had a nail (I do not like the endless constructions in my area) and the rr tire was leaking....

    Went to IAG to fix the leak. .........and I left the shop three hours later with an Invidia Q300 catback exhaust. Lol

    With this addition the ecu had to be flashed again with the SLWG map.... Boosting to 20.5lbs again..... The target boost is 18.5. Nice of IAG the tech caught it, road tested after the reflash before returning the keys

    In my three weeks driving stage2, I noticed the ecu "learns" and was impressed how it adjusted to the previous map, the LWG map, in about 600 miles of driving - it never spiked again and stayed at 18 psi of boost

    Now with the SLWG map the boost is spiking a little shy of 20lbs 19.5lbs or so. I guess the extra flow from the catback is having an impact

    Well I will take it easy as usual and wait for an opportunity to data log soon.

    Mod List

    Whiteline heavyduty adjustable fr/rr swaybars 24/22mm and
    Kartboy fr/rr endlinks

    SS braided brake lines fr/rr with Hawk pads

    Invidia catted dp
    Invidia Q300 exhaust with ti tips

    Cobb sf intake and box
    Cobb AP
    Stage2 SLWG 93oct map

    Lathe Werks burnt blue SS shift knob with leather insert and red stitching
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by jsBLwrx; 12-04-2013 at 05:49 PM.

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