I live in Hagerstown MD and travel to Montgomery County about once a week where the snow is suppose to be more severe this year. As we all know, Subaru made the very wise decision...:shakehead: of going with summer tires for an AWD car. While they grip the road well during the warmer months, it doesnt make much sense for what most people use these cars for. That being said..
Are winter tires necessary? I have experience driving in the snow but had All Weathers on my old 05 WRX. I don't want to invest in new tires unless it is truly necessary.
I would also say winter tires are not optional in areas that get temperature below 40 degrees F and get occasional snow. The car is pretty much useless with summer tires on snow. Like everyone said you'll likely endanger yourself, and others if you attempt such a feat.
It's unfortunate to hear that you're unable to equip your car properly for winter driving this season. The most fun you'll have with our cars is winter driving with proper tires. It's always fun driving past trucks/SUVs stuck on the side of the road and offer to help pull them out with a tow strap and a small car.
I got a good footage recently. I would have offered the guy or gal help, but I realized I forgot my tow strap from storage last season. :drive2:
It's unfortunate to hear that you're unable to equip your car properly for winter driving this season. The most fun you'll have with our cars is winter driving with proper tires. It's always fun driving past trucks/SUVs stuck on the side of the road and offer to help pull them out with a tow strap and a small car.
Love the video what winter tires are you running? where did you buy your tow strap I want to help an suv this winter!! just curious about how fast were you driving? Do you add any extra weight to the car, sandbags, our cars are so light?
Love the video what winter tires are you running? where did you buy your tow strap I want to help an suv this winter!! just curious about how fast were you driving? Do you add any extra weight to the car, sandbags, our cars are so light?
It's funny that you ask lol. I'm running Hankook IceBear WS300 205/50 R17 on 7.5 wide wheels. The tires have gotten some mixed reviews, but has yet to fail me and I'm happy with them.
I do help pull out people in need. Just be careful when you do so as our car were never designed to tow. Excessive load to the clutch and drivetrain is a concern. You can grab tow straps from local car parts stores (Autozone, Kragen, Sears, etc...).
I usually do not drive faster than 45mph, but it depends on road conditions. Winter driving is challenging in a way that conditions can change instantaneously. I leave my car is loaded normally(Just me, passengers, and appropriate gear for the occasion). I do not weight down my car as I like to preserve MPG's.
i never realised how "bad" my Magnum was in the snow until i got rid of it. in purchasing a $29k car, a set of winter tires on steelies is really not that big of a deal to me. wrecking my car or possibly hurting someone else is.
i can't believe someone would be so irresponsible to attempt this. i suggest you find a parking lot and drive around to see how bad they are. -while NOT on a subie, we took a friends maxima and did this to show him he needed to swap out his tires ASAP. the car would get stuck in 2.5" of snow.
For those who owned the older WRXs that came stock with All Season tires (what year did the WRX start coming with Summer Performance tires?), did you buy dedicated summer and winter tires?
Looks like first summers were 2009....the 2008 seems to have come with those dismal Potanza RE92 things....from 09 on they have come with Dunlop SP Sport 01
I say go with snow tires if you can afford them and your area gets a lot of snow, here in NJ I always run all season tires and the few days it snows just drive carefully, up shift a lot and keep it slow, and give yourself distance to slow down
Yeah, if you were to judge just on price alone you would think they were a budget crap tire, but they are really good tires......depending on size and deals, they are $100-$130 a tire (average is about $123 each)
I have been driving in snow for over 30 years. It is no big deal. If I find I have a problem, I will buy all season tires, not snow tires. I had a 2004 WRX without snow tires and never had a problem. I think years of driving experience counts for something. If you feel safer with designated snow tires, by all means buy them. I can assure everyone, I value other's safety as much as mine, and am a responsible driver. I had a RWD BMW with snow tires and still had some difficulty. With AWD, it would have to be a really bad storm not to be able to get around.
~33 years here. Experience is irreplaceable. I had a CDL to drive trucks and buses at one time. Logged a lot of miles in some pretty awful weather.
I too have made do with A/S for many years. Had zero issues with the RE92s for 4 seasons. Last year I tried to get through one last season on A/S Falken ZE912 Ziex. A much better dry than snow tire, they had worn down to 4-5/32". Too low - I knew better.
One 2" fresh snow untreated road morning commute I lost grip for a second, just enough to kiss the hillside just off of the road. Hurt my pride more than the WRX. You never know what driving situation will come at you.
I'm giving winter tires a try this year. Seeing what great summer tires can do in the warm weather I want to see what true cold weather tires are capable of. I'm already impressed with the dry and wet handling of new Dunlop Wintersport SP 3Ds. As much as I loathe snow, I'm looking forward to see how these tires will enhance the already excellent AWD.
I'm with you Callahan, below is a pic of my 2005 WRX with the factory Bridgestone All Season Tires...was out early morning after it snowed overnight, and found this field of new snow, after driving some 25 miles on un-plowed local roads, highways, parkways, and than snow covered dirt roads...I am a proud member of the D.N.S.S.T club:
NOTE: DO NOT DRIVE YOUR WRX WITH SUMMER PERFORMANCE TIRES IN THE SNOW!
I'm with you Callahan, below is a pic of my 2005 WRX with the factory Bridgestone All Season Tires...was out early morning after it snowed overnight, and found this field of new snow, after driving some 25 miles on un-plowed local roads, highways, parkways, and than snow covered dirt roads...I am a proud member of the D.N.S.S.T club:
I bought a '13 Limited a month ago and figured I'd purchase a pair of snow tires after the first snow, as is my tradition. I assumed this car had ATs, being an AWD vehicle..
But, after the first snowfall this morning, I rearended a beautiful GTI within five minutes. Thankfully both cars were okay.
Fml. Time to buy some steelies and Blizzaks on tirerack. Cyber Monday deals where are youuuuuu
I have been driving in snow for over 30 years. It is no big deal. If I find I have a problem, I will buy all season tires, not snow tires. I had a 2004 WRX without snow tires and never had a problem. I think years of driving experience counts for something. If you feel safer with designated snow tires, by all means buy them. I can assure everyone, I value other's safety as much as mine, and am a responsible driver. I had a RWD BMW with snow tires and still had some difficulty. With AWD, it would have to be a really bad storm not to be able to get around.
A/S tires can "make due" through the wintery months, but it will not compare to a proper tire designed for use in snow. Is your intention to run the A/S tires year-round? If so, you're giving up performance; a decent summer tire will net you traction vs a high-end A/S tire in the warm/dry months, the same way a winter tire will do so in the cold/snowy months. If you're not planning to run A/S tires year-round, you're pissing in the wind, as you're already swapping wheels/tires, why not opt for the best performance in the colder/snowy months?
I run dedicated setups: budget-friendly summer tires (Cooper RS3-S) for the warmer months, and studded snows (Nokian Hakkapeliitta 7) in the winter. In the summer months, all things being equal, I probably can net 3-5+ MPH faster in a turn than you would with whatever A/S tire you decide to buy. In the winter months, you probably gain some dry traction grip (due to the studs), but would likely be stranded at the base of my driveway with your A/S tires due to ice, and instead of driving up, you'd be walking up, even after putting 300-400lbs of salt down per application. If ice wasn't a concern and I ran a performance winter tire, I could probably get a similar gain in cornering speed vs your setup, and still have better snow traction to boot.
I go back to this analogy...would you rather cut a tree down with a hand saw or a chain saw? Both will get the job done, but one will do so more efficiently.
How do dedicated summer and winter tires perform in the spring and fall during the cool/damp months...certainly no better, and probably worse than a good UHP All Season tire.
Any experience with a UHP All Season tire during the spring and fall months?
BTW, the best tank in the world can still get stuck in ice...
Better than an A/S tire. Both tires have an optimum temperature operating range; go outside it, and you're going to get less than stellar results.
That's the benefit of a dedicated set vs a "jack of all trades" set: tire manufacturers are able to focus their efforts on getting as much traction as possible in a given condition, rather than having to figure out how to get the best traction in all conditions. Consider a scale: one measures items to the pound, and one measures to the gram; which do you think will be more accurate?
Better than an A/S tire. Both tires have an optimum temperature operating range; go outside it, and you're going to get less than stellar results.
That's the benefit of a dedicated set vs a "jack of all trades" set: tire manufacturers are able to focus their efforts on getting as much traction as possible in a given condition, rather than having to figure out how to get the best traction in all conditions. Consider a scale: one measures items to the pound, and one measures to the gram; which do you think will be more accurate?
Ok, nice research, sounds logical...do have to ask: have you had experience with a UHP All Season tire during the cool/damp spring and fall months, in a WRX?
FWIW: never owned a set of dedicated snow tires, and drove my 2005 WRX pretty hard (within limits) in heavy rain and snow storms, and on mud, dirt, and snowy pot hole filled roads, on the factory A/S tires, and always felt confident of their performance and ability
That being said, curious to find the low and high optimum operating range for my new Conti Extreme: Dry, Wet, Snow Ultra High Performance All Season Tires.
I will say, driving experience does count, as others have posted (I don't wanna tell you all how many years I've been driving...you guys may start calling me GRAMPS)
I too have made do with A/S for many years. Had zero issues with the RE92s for 4 seasons. Last year I tried to get through one last season on A/S Falken ZE912 Ziex. A much better dry than snow tire, they had worn down to 4-5/32". Too low - I knew better.
One 2" fresh snow untreated road morning commute I lost grip for a second, just enough to kiss the hillside just off of the road. Hurt my pride more than the WRX. You never know what driving situation will come at you.
I'm giving winter tires a try this year. Seeing what great summer tires can do in the warm weather I want to see what true cold weather tires are capable of. I'm already impressed with the dry and wet handling of new Dunlop Wintersport SP 3Ds. As much as I loathe snow, I'm looking forward to see how these tires will enhance the already excellent AWD.
Driving experience is only part of the equation. A loss of traction is a loss of traction; no amount of driving experience can help you there. The only thing driving experience can do is get you to potentially safely recover from said loss of traction, or mitigate your damages in the process. My former boss has more driving experience than either of you, and totaled his WRX on A/S tires (RE92s) when he hit black ice on the Interstate. He was able to mitigate the circumstance and only wreck his car. Whether dedicated snows would've saved the car is unknown (even studs wouldn't have guaranteed he regained traction), but it certainly wouldn't have made the situation worse.
While a UHP all-season tire will likely out-handle a generic snow tire, you've opted for the performance snow. You should see a gain in cold weather cornering traction with the WS3Ds along the lines I stated earlier (3-5+MPH). Obviously, in snowy conditions, you're not really going to be pushing the limits, but it will certainly have better snow traction than whatever A/S tire you would choose to throw at it.
Now when you say generic snow tire, would you consider the general altimax a generic snow tire? I was considering getting these since they seem to handle surprisingly well for a cheaper tire as many have stated on reviews and here on the forum. However, I'd feel inclined to spend more money if UHP A/S tires could outperform them :confused1
Yep. While the on center steering feel has gone somewhat mushy, the WRX still handles in a predictable pleasant manner. The cold weather rubber compound has got to be better than the Ziex's. I still feel connected when the temps drop to the low 20's.
Tire makers now offer several grades of tires based on weather and your preferences. Why not take advantage of the one best suited for your driving?
Ok, nice research, sounds logical...do have to ask: have you had experience with a UHP All Season tire during the cool/damp spring and fall months, in a WRX?
I have not driven a WRX/STI extensively on A/S tires in cold/winter months (just designated driver duty). A/S tires would not make it up my driveway, so it's not an option for me. I have driven enough vehicles on A/S and dedicated tires to know that I would prefer to run dedicated sets, however; AWD, RWD, and FWD.
pmacey said:
FWIW: never owned a set of dedicated snow tires, and drove my 2005 WRX pretty hard (within limits) in heavy rain and snow storms, and on mud, dirt, and snowy pot hole filled roads, on the factory A/S tires, and always felt confident of their performance and ability
Like has been said already, A/S tires can make due. Drive a car with dedicated sets, and you'll kick yourself for ever wasting your time on the "jack of all trades, master of none" tires...
pmacey said:
That being said, curious to find the low and high optimum operating range for my new Conti Extreme: Dry, Wet, Snow Ultra High Performance All Season Tires.
That is something you'd likely have to get from Continental, but it's likely going to be a vast range, since they're designed for both winter and summer months.
Just gotta add to the discussion here. While winter tires help a lot with light to heavy snow traction they really do shine on ice which I think some of your guys are overlooking. I can guarantee you that any dedicated winter tires do make a big difference over any A/S tires in this particular situation.
A year ago we had a big winter storm and then mid day thaw. Temperatures dropped in the afternoon and froze over all the roads. I was dodging cars/trucks/SUVs sliding down a hill in both directions :whoa:. I believe I was the only one that made it up the hill. My winter tires gave me enough control and traction to dodge cars and climb the hill. I gotta guarantee that at least 1/3 of those vehicles had A/S tires, 1/3 probably some knubby mud tires and 1/3 having just worn out crap tires.
I also gotta agree that no amount of experience will help a situation when vehicle is sliding down a hill and accelerating with close to 0 traction(I guess you guys are so lucky if you're located in flat lands lol).
I bought some nankang Sv 1 snow tires and I'm surprised that they are doing just as well as the blizzaks I've own and dunlops. And they were only $500 for a set of 4 in 18in. Check them out. Can go wrong for how cheap they are and they rock in the snow.
Now when you say generic snow tire, would you consider the general altimax a generic snow tire? I was considering getting these since they seem to handle surprisingly well for a cheaper tire as many have stated on reviews and here on the forum. However, I'd feel inclined to spend more money if UHP A/S tires could outperform them :confused1
what size winter tires are you guys running? I have a set of basically new 225/60R16 winter tires and I wasn't sure if they would be fine clearance wise
Well, I caved to peer pressure...sort of. I had a set of all season performance tires installed today. I bought the Cooper Zeon RS3-A 235/45R17. I didn't want to switch back and forth in spring and fall. I have my original tires with less than 1,000 miles on them. I might be interested in parting with them.
If you think about it, you really aren't spending more money to buy a set of winter tires. If you buy a set of winter tires now you will be spending money right now. If you dont and you run the same tires 24/7 you aren't spending money right now but you will be spending money eventually to replace them. Having 2 sets now you basically double the amount of time before you have to get new tires.
Everyone has different needs and lives in a environment that may need dedicated winter tires.
Never owned a set a dedicated winter tires at all. UHP All Season tires fit my needs fine.
UHP A/S tires make sense to me as I really don't drive/corner hard trying to get the best times, in any season, in any weather, in my WRX (and previous 2005 WRX I owned)
I want sufficient performance for everyday, combined with modest flexibility in light snow AND low temperatures, and for all season long: some traction in the Mud and wet on dirt roads, when I feel the need to get out for some Rally fun in the woods.
I live in NY - and don't I want to run dedicated snow tires 3-4 months a year, albeit most of those months, not even having snow on the road.
I also want a tire that does well in late fall and early spring. Such a tire is neither a dedicated snow tire or summer tire.
UHP A/S are sufficient for my needs, however this may not hold true for others.
FWIW, below is a link on the Conti Extreme Contact DWS tires that I replaced the stock Summer Performance Dunlop Sport tires with, good luck to all with whatever you choose to go with: