What's better? bags or coil overs - Page 3
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This is a discussion on What's better? bags or coil overs within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Kevin Pedrosa everyone saying feal 441s then i started wondering if they bad for the streetif it ...

  1. #31
    The Fruit mangostick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pedrosa View Post
    everyone saying feal 441s then i started wondering if they bad for the streetif it rides hard... like my dad's truck has stiff suspension which makes feel everything..i want something in between not to soft not too hard.
    Then leave the coilovers out of the equation. Check the spring rates on any of the available coilovers .. 400lb/in+ on ALL OF THEM (you'll find they're listed in metric.. 8k roughly equals 435lb/in). That includes the Feals for our cars. Now you might be able to get Feal to put a lower spring rate on for better street ride but that greatly depends on the dampers adjustment as well. Spring and Damper work together and they have to be pretty well matched to get really good feel and handling at same time. To give you an Idea of how much stiffer coilovers are vs stock.. our factory fronts are 217lb/in rear is about same. You'd effectively DOUBLE the spring rate going with coilovers. It WILL ride stiff. GF has an 07 TR with BC's and on the full soft setting its tolerable but still very bouncy/stiff. BC's come with 8K springs (435lb/in)

    Check into GTworx/RCE These guys will not steer you wrong and there are literally a ton of people running their regular guy and yellow springs.

    GTWORX.COM : GTWORX/Bilstein Impreza WRX Cup Sport Kit

    There are wrx kits available, just aren't on the website yet. Catch is they wont be in stock until first week of dec (according to a recent email I got from them). I plan to run the regular guy springs (270lb/in front and 250lb/in rear) for a nice streetable setup that doesn't take my teeth out or shake my kidneys loose. If you're going to track the car.. the yellows are the way to go. Those are 330lb/in f/r and both the regular guy set and the yellows are the springs that Bilstien used to design and valve the struts for the GTWorx folks.
    Last edited by mangostick; 10-16-2012 at 09:19 AM.
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  3. #32
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    but seeming to make a combo type set up will consume much time to find that good set up for you
    Quote Originally Posted by Ruh Roh View Post
    theres always going to be "better" everything, if you have the money for it... but feals seem like a great coilover. when i think about getting a new suspension setup im sure ill try to drive down to nj and have mikie take me for a drive so i can see how they feel. right now im on Epic springs (like Lokey) and KYB struts which im happy with the setup. theres a bunch of different options out there

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    i was planning later down greatly improve the horsepower,brakes,suspension for weekends track use. i wanted to get a set up that i wouldn't have to change later down the road.. i was planning on spending good amount of money but i want coil overs for the street and track.. with regular guy and yellow spring its not adjustable though for the winter?isnt it a set height will it have just as good of a hadnling?
    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    Then leave the coilovers out of the equation. Check the spring rates on any of the available coilovers .. 400lb/in+ on ALL OF THEM (you'll find they're listed in metric.. 8k roughly equals 435lb/in). That includes the Feals for our cars. Now you might be able to get Feal to put a lower spring rate on for better street ride but that greatly depends on the dampers adjustment as well. Spring and Damper work together and they have to be pretty well matched to get really good feel and handling at same time. To give you an Idea of how much stiffer coilovers are vs stock.. our factory fronts are 217lb/in rear is about same. You'd effectively DOUBLE the spring rate going with coilovers. It WILL ride stiff. GF has an 07 TR with BC's and on the full soft setting its tolerable but still very bouncy/stiff. BC's come with 8K springs (435lb/in)

    Check into GTworx/RCE These guys will not steer you wrong and there are literally a ton of people running their regular guy and yellow springs.

    GTWORX.COM : GTWORX/Bilstein Impreza Cup Sport Kit for STI

    There are wrx kits available, just aren't on the website yet. Catch is they wont be in stock until first week of dec (according to a recent email I got from them). I plan to run the regular guy springs (270lb/in front and 250lb/in rear) for a nice streetable setup that doesn't take my teeth out or shake my kidneys loose. If you're going to track the car.. the yellows are the way to go. Those are 330lb/in f/r and both the regular guy set and the yellows are the springs that Bilstien used to design and valve the struts for the GTWorx folks.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pedrosa View Post
    i was planning later down greatly improve the horsepower,brakes,suspension for weekends track use. i wanted to get a set up that i wouldn't have to change later down the road.. i was planning on spending good amount of money but i want coil overs for the street and track.. with regular guy and yellow spring its not adjustable though for the winter?isnt it a set height will it have just as good of a hadnling?
    The best part about coilovers is they are adjustble

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    Quote Originally Posted by nsibanez View Post
    The best part about coilovers is they are adjustble
    Which is absolutely useless since you need a suspension alignment ANY time an adjustment is made to the coilovers. Instead of wasting your money, you can just buy suspension that is matched to your goals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Which is absolutely useless since you need a suspension alignment ANY time an adjustment is made to the coilovers. Instead of wasting your money, you can just buy suspension that is matched to your goals.
    Never thought about that, but it does make sense.
    I was under the impression that it's only really necessary if you'r egoing obnoxiously low (There is such thing as too low)

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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Which is absolutely useless since you need a suspension alignment ANY time an adjustment is made to the coilovers. Instead of wasting your money, you can just buy suspension that is matched to your goals.
    Would you need an alignment if you just adjusted the dampeners?
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    Quote Originally Posted by maus View Post
    Would you need an alignment if you just adjusted the dampeners?
    If you're adjusting just the dampening force, then you should not need one as long as it's not adjusting the ride height.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Pedrosa View Post
    thinking about buying them since everyone say they are good...but are there better coilovers?
    There will always be better, but you're going to be paying more for better. If I had more money, I would have gone with KWs. But, I'm really happy with my Feals, and with the customer service Odi at Feal provided.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsibanez View Post
    If you're adjusting just the dampening force, then you should not need one as long as it's not adjusting the ride height.
    No, but the damping should be matched to the spring rate. I wouldopen a can of physics whoopass, but you are shooting for an overdamped system. If the damping is too high for the spring rate, you will have a critically damped system, which will not react correctly over bumpy roads. If the damping is too low for the spring rate, you will have an underdamped system, which will create a bouncy ride.


    Quote Originally Posted by nsibanez View Post
    Never thought about that, but it does make sense.
    I was under the impression that it's only really necessary if you'r egoing obnoxiously low (There is such thing as too low)
    Any change in ride height will affect your camber and caster. This will need to be adjusted for the best possible handling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by maus View Post
    Would you need an alignment if you just adjusted the dampeners?
    No...that just adjusts the rebound dampening. It doesn't change any height or actual physical components of the suspension.


    The Feals are 30 click adjustable (and the adjustability actually works well, unlike the BCs which have 30 click dampening as well, which owners say that every 6 or 7 clicks THEN makes a difference). You can specify whatever spring rates you want on the Feal coils when you order. I went with 7k/5k spring rates. You can go softer for more daily driveability if you'd like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    No...that just adjusts the rebound dampening. It doesn't change any height or actual physical components of the suspension.


    The Feals are 30 click adjustable (and the adjustability actually works well, unlike the BCs which have 30 click dampening as well, which owners say that every 6 or 7 clicks THEN makes a difference). You can specify whatever spring rates you want on the Feal coils when you order. I went with 7k/5k spring rates. You can go softer for more daily driveability if you'd like.
    Mikie, make sure you are adjusting the damping with respect to the spring rates. They should be matched in accordance with manufacturer specifications. Running a high damping force with a low spring rate will give you dangerous handling. Have you discussed this with Feal?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Mikie, make sure you are adjusting the damping with respect to the spring rates. They should be matched in accordance with manufacturer specifications. Running a high damping force with a low spring rate will give you dangerous handling. Have you discussed this with Feal?
    I did discuss this with Feal quite a bit actually. They are valved to work with the spring rates even when adjusted. They have been preadjusted and set for optimum performance according to Feal.
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    As mentioned, the Yellow spring cup kit from GTworx is for track/street. The Regular guy kit is for people like me who dont track their car but want a firm steetable setup.

    They've already done the track tuning for both setups with Bilstien.. I think they know what they're doing since they've been producing and selling dampers for oh I dunno a long effin time.

    Adjustability really doesn't mean much for a 90% street driven car. Seriously it doesn't. It sounds nice but when you realize how much you really dont mess with it you'll realize that you spent money you didn't have to spend. Or.. you get adjustable setups that aren't accurate or consistent. That's even worse. Why sacrifice accuracy or consistency over the ability to click a knob?

    Non-adjustables that are already matched are a bolt on and forget affair. Never need to mess with them again.

    fyi, the drop on the RCE/GTworx setup is only .75-1" .. that's not enough to sacrifice winter travels.
    Last edited by mangostick; 10-16-2012 at 09:27 AM. Reason: terrible spelling
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  16. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    I did discuss this with Feal quite a bit actually. They are valved to work with the spring rates even when adjusted. They have been preadjusted and set for optimum performance according to Feal.
    Even then, though, (for anyone that remembers their DiffEq courses), there is a particular solution that best matches an overdamped condition with a transition threshold. As long as you remain within those ranges, you're at optimum damping.
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