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This is a discussion on Better brakes (not bigger) within the Suspension & Wheels forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Resurrecting this for more input, hopefully from someone in Australia or one of the countries that gets JDM/EDM/ADM Subarus I ...

  1. #31
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    Resurrecting this for more input, hopefully from someone in Australia or one of the countries that gets JDM/EDM/ADM Subarus

    I have a set of '07 red 4 pots for the front, but still looking for rear 2 pots that would fit.

    The JDM (etc.) versions of the WRX got 4/2 pot brakes back in like 2000 or 2002 (they were black with raised letters), but the USDM version only got them for 06/07 it seams (red with decals). Correct me if I am wrong on that.

    I got to thinking, why would JDM (etc) have 4/2 pots earlier than USDM, then nix the idea all together and go back to mono setups for 08 on......that makes no since. So I started looking for what the 11 came with in other markets. Unfortunately, I am having a hard time finding the specs written out in English. However, I went and looked at an AU dealer's site and see that even the base WRX for 2012 has red calipers front and rear.

    I want to know if these are the same calipers that are stock on the USDM, just painted red for the other markets, or if they are in fact 4/2 (or 6/4, or 6/2) pot setups. And, if they are multi-pot setups, do they have the same rotors we have in USDM. Finally, if they are multi-pot, and if they are the same rotors, can someone either help us USDM guys import a few pairs or give us the part numbers so a dealer can get them?
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  3. #32
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    So I joined an Australian forum to ask the above questions...... seems that they also got the poo brakes for 08+ WRXs.

    I would assume that Subaru downgraded the brakes to save money in production costs because the 'good' brakes are not really needed for a DD car.....but I wish they would have at least kept them as an option, or at the very least, kept the rear hubs/rotors with the same dimensions so us enthusiasts could use the '07 parts.
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  4. #33
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    just get Brembos.
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  5. #34
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    Would love to......you gonna foot the $7K that it will cost to convert to Brembo front and rear....cause I would also need new summer and winter sets of wheels and tires? I'm not that rich.
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  6. #35
    \_(ツ)_/ Rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonWRX View Post
    Would love to......you gonna foot the $7K that it will cost to convert to Brembo front and rear....cause I would also need new summer and winter sets of wheels and tires? I'm not that rich.
    Not sure where you'll pulling that number, unless you're going all out on wheels. I figure a set of rotas and summer tires will be around $1800 new (probably under $1k used). Add in a generous $1,500 for a set of used Brembos and say a $500 budget for any adaptors, new rotors, etc. You're still under $4k for all of that, which I'll admit is a lot, but it's not $7k, and you'll have no only improved braking, but checked off the number one item for better handling (tires), and probably reduce unsprung weight as well, depending on wheel/tire combination. Bear in mind you can sell stock parts to recoup some of your investment.

    I think finding a direct replacement caliper is admirable though. If you find anything, let us know!
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  7. #36
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    well, I was not accounting for used brakes or wheels, and getting quality tires.

    Without going overboard on the brembo kit, you are looking at about $1700 for front and $1700 for rear new for the smaller sets (larger 6pot fronts can be $3600). So thats about $3500 for just the calipers/rotors/braided lines and shipping. These are the TireRack prices.

    Then you are looking at about 500 for your adapters and some pads (note that the Brembo kits don't have pads included)

    So we are at $4k before we even start on weeks and tires.

    My current winter wheel/tire setup includes '03ish Subaru LGT snowflakes (16") and Nokian Hekkapalita tires. The wheels I got cheap for about $300, but I would be hard pressed to find something that would cover the after market Brembos (which are larger than the OEM versions it seems) for under $700 used. The tires cost me just over a grand, but going to 17-18" would cost more, so about $1100-$1200.....so winter wheels would be about 2k total.

    we are now at $6000 and I have not even gotten to summer wheels and tires.




    All the above non-sense aside, I do want to find a way of finding a direct replacement solution, and I will DEFINITELY share the solution when I do find one.

    I have an e-mail in to Kartboy about them making adapters to make the 06/07 bolt to the 08+.....so far all I have got back is 'I will look into it and get back to you'....which is nice, but I am not really holding my breath.

    If that doesn't pan-out, and no other parts maker comes up with anything, I may attempt to mock-up and design my own adapter.....and if I do, I will share.
    Last edited by DemonWRX; 03-01-2012 at 05:00 PM.
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  8. #37
    \_(ツ)_/ Rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonWRX View Post

    I may attempt to mock-up and design my own adapter.....and if I do, I will share.
    Careful with that. I'm a mechanical engineer, and part of my senior design project in college was doing this exact thing (adapting Ducati Brembos to a Baja car). The stresses involved are difficult to model properly, since I had to rely on my simulations with various assumptions made about momentum, the torque on the disk, etc. It was hard enough just fitting the tolerances of the mounting holes and caliper body to the knuckles we were using, but you also need to brace these structures as they face tremendous forces (think of the momentum of a 3500 lb car at 70mph...), and pulsing loads like ABS add new variables to consider.

    I made a design that modeled out ok, but there was no way to machine it, only cast, which added exponential cost for the molds, prep, etc, as opposed to something that I could give them the model files and C&C code and they could whip it out in a day. It ended up being too cost prohibitive, and we went with a bolt-in caliper that didn't have as many benefits, but was a perfect fit.

    Unless you do this sort of thing for a living, I would strongly caution against a DIY fit job. I don't mean to insult you if you are an expert and know what you're doing, but be careful.

    Just my cautious $0.02...
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  9. #38
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    good input....thanks.

    No, this is not my field. I am an electronics engineer by training, and computer guy by day. If I were to attempt a DIY deal, it would be modeled after the Kartboy adapter that is used for '03-'05 conversions, which looks to be made out of like 1/3" thick steel or aluminum with an offset.

    This would only be a last resort type of thing, but if I do attempt it, I would err on the side of caution and make it thinker, stronger and heavier than it should need to be....like making it out of 3/4" to 1" thick case hardened steel. I don't want to go and kill myself or others by making it too flimsy. And I would only spec it out, then have it professionally made

    again, I would really not want to have to do the R&D on it.....but would at least attempt it if there was no other way.
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  10. #39
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Your 16inch setup won't work for the 4/2 pots either will they? That's why the 06/07 WRXs had 17in wheels...

    For the record, my winter setup is only worth about $1000 brand new from TireRack, and they clear my Brembos.

    And for even further record...your biggest problem is getting prices from TireRack
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    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    The 16" *should* fit the 4/2 FHI, but would not fit the 4/2 Brembo setup for sure. I wouldn't know for certain till I try or find other accounts from someone with an 06/07 that has tried.

    Yes, using TireRack for a cost analysis is not the best prices I could get from searching around, but I was just doing some quick price research.....not really entertaining the idea of Brembos.

    and the 'for the record....$1000 brand new'....that all depends on the tires you choose. Unless you went with steelies, (which are $59 ea.) I got the better deal on wheels. On the tires though, I did splurge for one of the best studless snow tires on the market. I did this because in the last few years Pittsburgh has had ice storms and some rather heavy snow falls that road crews were unable to deal with....I did not want to wreck or get stranded....figures this would have been the mildest winter in years. If I were to get the same tire in 225/50R17 (which would almost exact size match the 245/40R18 summers I would run), the cheapest a quick google shopping search returned was $266.55 ea. before tax/shipping/mounting
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  12. #41
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Yeah I was a bit low on my estimates...but my winter wheels are cheap ASAs (ones that look sort of like the 06/07 WRX wheesl) that cost $90 at the time I looked them up. Tires are Dunlop Wintersport M3s. Both of which were purchased by the previous owner. So I'm looking at more like $1200-1300 on my setup. I didn't know the M3s were that expensive.

    And yeah...this lack of a winter has kinda pissed me off
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  13. #42
    Lando Calrissian DemonWRX's Avatar
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    Either way.....arguing about tire and wheel costs, or the possible cost of a Brembo kit is not what this thread was meant for.......so, semi-back-on-topic nudge


    When I do get the 4/2 setup worked out (I already have the 4 pots waiting in my living room), I will be painting them another color before install.....I don't care for the bright red 'look at me" thing. I know that they sell special caliper paint kits, and have seen others have used engine block rattle can paint....neither come in the color I would like to use (though black or silver will do if all else fails). So I have two questions.

    1) If I choose to have them powder coated, would I need to completely disassemble them? Seeing how high brake fluid boiling points are, I would assume that the seals and boots could take the heat required to bake on the powder, but not sure.

    2) Would an average body shop be able to mix a custom color paint that can handle the heat/abuse that calipers will be subjected to, or is that grade of paint really limited to specific colors currently?
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  14. #43
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgardiner View Post
    Willwood makes a four-pot kit for the front that will fit under 17" wheels and are currently developing a kit for the rear.

    Wilwood Big Brake Kit Group Buy!
    this kit sucks from what I hear
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  15. #44
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonWRX View Post
    Either way.....arguing about tire and wheel costs, or the possible cost of a Brembo kit is not what this thread was meant for.......so, semi-back-on-topic nudge


    When I do get the 4/2 setup worked out (I already have the 4 pots waiting in my living room), I will be painting them another color before install.....I don't care for the bright red 'look at me" thing. I know that they sell special caliper paint kits, and have seen others have used engine block rattle can paint....neither come in the color I would like to use (though black or silver will do if all else fails). So I have two questions.

    1) If I choose to have them powder coated, would I need to completely disassemble them? Seeing how high brake fluid boiling points are, I would assume that the seals and boots could take the heat required to bake on the powder, but not sure.

    2) Would an average body shop be able to mix a custom color paint that can handle the heat/abuse that calipers will be subjected to, or is that grade of paint really limited to specific colors currently?
    They can handle the heat, and it's one of those things where different people choose different routes. Some take them apart, others mask them.

    Talk to your powder coater about what they can do regarding high temp powder coats. My guy did some brakes in Lambo Orange, and Lambo Green that both came out nicely.
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  16. #45
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DemonWRX View Post
    1) If I choose to have them powder coated, would I need to completely disassemble them? Seeing how high brake fluid boiling points are, I would assume that the seals and boots could take the heat required to bake on the powder, but not sure.
    Couple threads over on IWSTI have said that the powdercoaters required full disassembly. Removing of all seals and rubber. I imagine it would depend on who you go through. Call em and ask.

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonWRX View Post
    2) Would an average body shop be able to mix a custom color paint that can handle the heat/abuse that calipers will be subjected to, or is that grade of paint really limited to specific colors currently?
    Are you planning on tracking your car? I assume you can make any color into a good heat resistant coating. I imagine it would have more to do with the clear coat over the color. But this is something you'd want to specifically ask the paint pros (unless of course we have some around here).

    I'd think powdercoating would be the best (and most durable) way to go for caliper coloring.
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