Subaru Sales 9/1/2009

[Trainrex]

WRX owners seem to be the sort about which a fraternal feeling develops, similar to old-skool Jeep owners.

It is what it is.

Think of all the sad Ranger folk that you didn't wave to.

[RayfieldsWRX]

Think of all the sad Ranger folk that you didn't wave to.

[CobbNation]

More people may be buying Subaru's but it seems less and less are aware of the fellow Subaru driver... waving, honking, and thumbs up are becoming more rare in my area with Subaru drivers.

We are a dying breed.

[ZACK777]

We are a dying breed.

Sad but true. This may call for an "Endangered Species" sticker on the rex.

[KazeVelara]

We are a dying breed.

I try to when I can...

[Bedhead42]

...Do you wave at all of the other Ranger owners? If you are riding on a bus or train, do you wave at the other buses and trains? If not, why not?

No, of course not The main point of this whole debate is that Subaru is an unspoken alliance, unlike other Makes of vehicles, that's what makes them special, and that's why its disappointing to get dirty looks instead of waves in return for your wave/honk/thumbs-up.

I know what you guys are saying though, I cant stand all of these new Subie owners

[JimR]

You just have to teach women how to drive them. My wife made a chick in a RSX-R look retarded the other day in my 06' WRX. She dosen't understand the mods to it, she only knows "It's fast".

[sethbrown2007]

every time i see a subaru in my little town im always sure to wave or make it aware to my friends that a subaru just passed because it's very rare to see another subaru owner around here!

[Sentra2Subbi]

Im currently looking for a subbi! I dont even own one yet.. I dont know anyone who does, yet I love them!

[Wrinklechops]

With that said... it's still a good thing. I think by in-large, the American population has become more aware of the obvious downfalls of USDM vehicles, particularly after all the financial problems we see every day in the news. Crappy gas mileage, old technology, horrible reliability, piss-poor resale value, etc.

Hate to open a can of worms, but I can't just sit here and let you trash talk ALL USDM vehicles Come on now man, I thought we've been there before with all that? lol

Crappy gas mileage? The new line of Chevy cars and SUVs get more MPG than comparable Honda vehicles. I know we've talked about this before, but look at the Cobalt SS. Aside from crappy FWD (I will admit), it is an awesome bang for the buck buy, and gets 30+ mpg.

Old technology? Please point to something that illustrates this. I would argue that things like the Cobalt SS are very technologically advanced, keeping track with all these "technologically advanced" imports you speak so highly of.

Reliability? Horrible? Please, would you just let that myth die? I know you've told me some of the horrible experiences you have had with domestic vehicles, and I understand, but I can also tell you first hand how much trouble mechanically my WRX has been and how UN-reliable it has been for me (2 engine rebuilds and 1 new shortblock, just to get started).

With the reliability claim and the resale value claim, I move to mention my newly acquired 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I know you may only be referring to USDM cars, but I can't even begin to tell you how many Jeeps I know of that are well into the 200,000 mile and 300,000 mile marker on their odometer. This one guy even had 395,000 miles and only had to replace the tranny finally 50,000 miles ago! And my Jeep is a prime example of a vehicle that still holds value. 1998, 99,000 miles, blue books at around $8000. I think that's pretty good. I could be wrong, I don't know.

But please, let's stop the bashing of the US cars? I mean, I'm not saying all imports are bad either because I actually love them. I just can't stand for trash talking the USDM cars when they've come a long way and no one seems to be giving them any credit.

I know I might get in trouble for posting this, but I tried being respectful and opening a mature discussion. Usually when I try sticking up for these things, I get in trouble, or I get attacked from a variety of angles.

[Wrinklechops]

Also, just wanted to add some data... just so you know I'm not completely unfounded in my approach

It looks like GM is still outselling Toyota for example, and everyone else.

I included an attached vehicle sales report from Motor Intelligence by Autodata - Automotive Marketing promotions, data and analysis

It's an Excel spreadsheet, for those of you who don't have that program. But here's a screen shot, albeit small:



http://www.fileden.com/files/2006/11...SR_Sales-3.xls

[RayfieldsWRX]

This is an import forum, and I do think people overstate the shortcomings of domestic cars.

[proceeds to hex himself]
My '98 Ford Ranger has been a fantastic vehicle since it was passed on to me after my father's death in 2005. I've put > 40,000 miles on it, with no investment in it beyond normal maintenance...which, to be honest, I've been a little lax about compared to my Subie. It's slow..but it also gives me 28-31mpg, depending on time of year..also better than my Subie.

ninefourteener does have a couple of valid points; resale on domestics does seem low compared to most of the Japanese and German options. That's a bummer if you're in the habit of trading out every 2-3 years. Not as big a deal if you do as the financial gurus advise and hold on to the car for a while.

Old technology...well, depends on what kind of car we're talking about. If we're discussing engines, I kinda like having my back-to-basics simple fuel-injected 4banger in the truck. There's just very little to go wrong. German cars are typically lauded for having the latest and greatest...and then you'll see the next thread where someone complains about all of the electronic gremlins that come with that sophisication. (no insult there; I <3 German sports cars and sedans. ) As for American high performance vehicles, the upper end Vettes are unbelievable bang for the buck..the LS9 may be a pushrod V8, but it makes over 600hp. Sounds mighty impressive to me, and to everyone who's driven it, including some notable Europeans.

The stock SRT-4 came underrated from the factory, and took to mods like crazy. A successful platform, as was your aforementioned Cobalt SS.

I could go on...I guess the bottom line is that I can appreciate what the domestic automakers have offered to some degree.
OTOH, people here do have a right to their opinion, and it's expected that a number of them won't care for the American options. Why worry about it? Everyone has different life experience and subsequent biases that they draw on. If they ask you for your opinion, give it honestly. If they don't want it, worry about being intellectually honest yourself....and let the chips fall where they may with everyone else.

[/dissertation]

[Wrinklechops]

This is an import forum, and I do think people overstate the shortcomings of domestic cars.

[proceeds to hex himself]
My '98 Ford Ranger has been a fantastic vehicle since it was passed on to me after my father's death in 2005. I've put > 40,000 miles on it, with no investment in it beyond normal maintenance...which, to be honest, I've been a little lax about compared to my Subie. It's slow..but it also gives me 28-31mpg, depending on time of year..also better than my Subie.

ninefourteener does have a couple of valid points; resale on domestics does seem low compared to most of the Japanese and German options. That's a bummer if you're in the habit of trading out every 2-3 years. Not as big a deal if you do as the financial gurus advise and hold on to the car for a while.

Old technology...well, depends on what kind of car we're talking about. If we're discussing engines, I kinda like having my back-to-basics simple fuel-injected 4banger in the truck. There's just very little to go wrong. German cars are typically lauded for having the latest and greatest...and then you'll see the next thread where someone complains about all of the electronic gremlins that come with that sophisication. (no insult there; I <3 German sports cars and sedans. ) As for American high performance vehicles, the upper end Vettes are unbelievable bang for the buck..the LS9 may be a pushrod V8, but it makes over 600hp. Sounds mighty impressive to me, and to everyone who's driven it, including some notable Europeans.

The stock SRT-4 came underrated from the factory, and took to mods like crazy. A successful platform, as was your aforementioned Cobalt SS.

I could go on...I guess the bottom line is that I can appreciate what the domestic automakers have offered to some degree.
OTOH, people here do have a right to their opinion, and it's expected that a number of them won't care for the American options. Why worry about it? Everyone has different life experience and subsequent biases that they draw on. If they ask you for your opinion, give it honestly. If they don't want it, worry about being intellectually honest yourself....and let the chips fall where they may with everyone else.

[/dissertation]

Well said Ray. Thanks for not jumping down my throat. I suppose I really should take a step back and realize I am on an import forum and it's probably safe to assume most people on here are not necessarily going to be huge fans of anything but.

I sort of slapped myself in the head after posting what I did, thinking I was going to be opening yet another can of worms. I wanted to go back and delete everything I said and just leave it alone because I'm certainly not changing anyone's minds on the subject. I've been over this with ninefourteener before sort of, and we sort of agreed on some points at the end of it all.

In the end, you're right, I just need to stop trying to argue about foreign vs domestic automobiles on a forum where I am outnumbered To be fair though, I sort of saw a double standard when ninefourteener was bashing American cars and got away with it, but when I say a few bad things about imports or try to talk up American cars (or V8s for example) I get in all kinds of trouble. Then again, I suppose I need to realize where I am.

I love most everyone on this forum. Good people. I don't want to leave the friendly Subaru community by any means. My circumstances have sort of forced me to leave temporarily though. I just don't like to stand for ANY type of car bashing whatsoever. If I was on my Jeep forum and they started trash talking all import cars, I would be the first one to stick up for them and point out to the idiots there how wrong they were. I try to be fair to all auto manufacturers. I think there are a handful of absolutely stunning engineering achievements from each major world car company, be it US, Japanese, or German.


P.S. I am sorry to hear about your father Ray.

[Trainrex]

Hate to open a can of worms, but I can't just sit here and let you trash talk ALL USDM vehicles Come on now man, I thought we've been there before with all that? lol

Crappy gas mileage? The new line of Chevy cars and SUVs get more MPG than comparable Honda vehicles. I know we've talked about this before, but look at the Cobalt SS. Aside from crappy FWD (I will admit), it is an awesome bang for the buck buy, and gets 30+ mpg.

Old technology? Please point to something that illustrates this. I would argue that things like the Cobalt SS are very technologically advanced, keeping track with all these "technologically advanced" imports you speak so highly of.

Reliability? Horrible? Please, would you just let that myth die? I know you've told me some of the horrible experiences you have had with domestic vehicles, and I understand, but I can also tell you first hand how much trouble mechanically my WRX has been and how UN-reliable it has been for me (2 engine rebuilds and 1 new shortblock, just to get started).

With the reliability claim and the resale value claim, I move to mention my newly acquired 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I know you may only be referring to USDM cars, but I can't even begin to tell you how many Jeeps I know of that are well into the 200,000 mile and 300,000 mile marker on their odometer. This one guy even had 395,000 miles and only had to replace the tranny finally 50,000 miles ago! And my Jeep is a prime example of a vehicle that still holds value. 1998, 99,000 miles, blue books at around $8000. I think that's pretty good. I could be wrong, I don't know.

But please, let's stop the bashing of the US cars? I mean, I'm not saying all imports are bad either because I actually love them. I just can't stand for trash talking the USDM cars when they've come a long way and no one seems to be giving them any credit.

I know I might get in trouble for posting this, but I tried being respectful and opening a mature discussion. Usually when I try sticking up for these things, I get in trouble, or I get attacked from a variety of angles.

I hate to tell you this, but a 1998 Grand Cherokee is worth $3000 - $5000 depending on options and luck. Most are selling for about $3500. I know this because I repair, buy, and sell cars all day long.

The 93-98 Grand Cherokee's are basically solid vehicles, but are plagued with certain problems just like any other. I've worked on more than I can remember. The 4.0, 5.2, and 5.9 engines are normally reliable, though the 4.0 motor has always had cooling problems since its inception. The 46re trans in the 5.9 is normally reliable. The 44re and the 42re in the 5.2's, and 4.0's tend to be troublesome. The early Aisin Warner transmissions were bulletproof. The NP231 transfer case is reliable, but the NP242 and NP249 cases tend to puke more often. The ujoint front driveshaft is stout, but the full CV joint front driveshafts often puke leading to a horrible vibration. The front and rear differentials are very troublesome, especially on the full time AWD vehicles with CV joint front differentials. The ujoint front diffs are a bit stronger. They eat bearings. The CV joint front diffs will need boots every 60k miles. Speedometer clusters often malfunction. If you have ATC (automatic temperature control), the controls themselves often fail, and the blend door will often break. The vehicles with a power left front seat will often suffer a seat motor failure. If yours is equipped with ABS, those often suffer pump failures. The left front door hinges often wear the pin holes. Jeep offers a pin and bushing kit for this. Power steering pumps often develope leaks, and then fail. Sometimes the steering box will get sloppy and/or develope a dead spot. I could go on and on and on.

Like any other vehicle, they have their problems.

[Wrinklechops]

I hate to tell you this, but a 1998 Grand Cherokee is worth $3000 - $5000 depending on options and luck. Most are selling for about $3500. I know this because I repair, buy, and sell cars all day long.

Mine is the 5.9 Limited, and Blue Books for over the $6000 I paid for it here. Maybe our locations mess with the price a little. Colorado is more expensive to live in.

The 93-98 Grand Cherokee's are basically solid vehicles, but are plagued with certain problems just like any other. I've worked on more than I can remember. The 4.0, 5.2, and 5.9 engines are normally reliable, though the 4.0 motor has always had cooling problems since its inception. The 46re trans in the 5.9 is normally reliable. The 44re and the 42re in the 5.2's, and 4.0's tend to be troublesome. The early Aisin Warner transmissions were bulletproof. The NP231 transfer case is reliable, but the NP242 and NP249 cases tend to puke more often. The ujoint front driveshaft is stout, but the full CV joint front driveshafts often puke leading to a horrible vibration. The front and rear differentials are very troublesome, especially on the full time AWD vehicles with CV joint front differentials. The ujoint front diffs are a bit stronger. They eat bearings. The CV joint front diffs will need boots every 60k miles. Speedometer clusters often malfunction. If you have ATC (automatic temperature control), the controls themselves often fail, and the blend door will often break. The vehicles with a power left front seat will often suffer a seat motor failure. If yours is equipped with ABS, those often suffer pump failures. The left front door hinges often wear the pin holes. Jeep offers a pin and bushing kit for this. Power steering pumps often develope leaks, and then fail. Sometimes the steering box will get sloppy and/or develope a dead spot. I could go on and on and on.

Like any other vehicle, they have their problems.

You do know your Jeeps I am impressed TR. I am surprised you know about the 46RE among other things. Yes, I know the tranny in my old '94 Jeep GC with the 5.2 had problems, but the engine was rock solid at 250,000 miles when I sold her. I always hear the 249 case in my 5.9 GC has problems, and many people switch them out to the 242s. I think it's so they can have optional 2WD though...

But I'll have to look into everything else you spoke of. I have my Jeep at the dealer right now getting worked on, and they did a full inspection and found a few things (leaks at the "park safety neutral switch", and some kind of trans cooler line that needs repair) but otherwise, they said the vehicle looked pretty good. The rear differential was just replaced entirely though, with a new driveshaft and t-case seals too, so that helps a little.

You're right, every vehicle has problems... but at least the engines are pretty rock solid. I have a "High Mileage" thread going on over at some Jeep forums, and I can't even tell you how many are coming back to me with 200,000 miles and into the 300,000s even, original motor.