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This is a discussion on More torque? within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by GIRex good luck. Im sure you will be happier with a wrx or a wrx sti than ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIRex
    good luck. Im sure you will be happier with a wrx or a wrx sti than an m3.. there is a lot more beating and fun modifying you will have.
    haha.. I don't know about that. I've driven a lot of cars, my buddies are all car freaks.. and I doubt I will ever go back from german. Not knocking any other cars, of course.. but the only way I'd sway from german is italian, and .. *checks wallet* .. I don't see that happening any time soon.. :P

    The salesguy at suburu was commenting on my bmw when I first started talking to him, so I had him come over and check out the bimmer. All you have to do is go shut the doors or the trunk and then go to any other non-german car and shut the doors or the trunk. The chassis is so much more solid, its built like a tank. It doesn't rattle or flex at all, and yet it is still nimble and balanced. A lot of people wouldn't care about that or notice it at all, but once you've been there, its hard to go back. Even the hood is solid and doesn't flex, everything down to the airbox in the engine is made well. Its not just some cheap airbox, it actually is a form of cold air intake and draws air from the front grill. Its a small example of the level of quality throughout the entire car that's worth paying for. The clutch after 50,000 miles is still smooth and predictable, and easy to use. I can remember my last honda's clutch showing its age by now.. The same goes for the interior, its solid and the dash is not hollow at all. I commonly will rap on the dash of cars when I look at them (I look at cars all the time, even though I'm not buying.. I love cars), and they're often plastic and hollow in areas. Like I said before, I was expecting the WRX to be more like a tin can compared to the bimmer, but I was impressed, its a nice little car. And cheap.

    And, bmw still has the right idea. Anyone serious about road-driving will drive rear wheel drive, and that's all they make. The rear accomodates huge wheels, easily 10" wide rims if you want.. blah blah blah, I could go on forever. My bmw isn't perfect, there's still things I would change if I could, but its definitely the kind of car I want to drive. It just costs a fortune to maintain..

    Sorry about the psuedo-rant. I see bmw's get dogged a lot.. make no mistake, I don't drive my bmw because its some kind of luxury car.. I drive my bmw because its a RWD inline six cylinder with a manual transmission. It may not be any competition in the 1/4 mile, but it *is* an amazing driving experience. I see a lot of "My integra was faster than this piece of crap!" and "bmw's nav system sucks!" and "I can buy a fully loaded TL for less money than a 325!" .. and those are definitely the wrong reasons to be buying a bmw. Trust me, I would own an acura if they made a RWD car (besides the nsx). People seem to completely ignore the drivetrain .. oh well. I guess the point to this whole thing is, if you're reading this, don't discount bmw's.. there's a lot more to them than what most people think (not directed at anyone in particular).

    Thanks for all the replies! I'm sure I'll end up getting a WRX.. I'll just have to line up some immediate aftermarket upgrades after buying it. Then I can rally it up on the way to work and the m3 can be a garage queen.

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  3. #17
    Registered User bone138's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmg0001
    I really liked the WRX.. I was afraid it would feel like a tin can (I've owned two toyotas and two hondas, and they always felt like tin cans to me even though they ran great), but its really solid. That's why I thought a turbo wagon would be perfect.
    Based on these statements, and the fact that you're coming from a BMW, I would recommend you look into the new Saab 9-2X Aero. It's just a rebadged WRX with a nicer body and more sound deadening. It also has a quicker steering rack, leather interior, and some other small upgrades. They're rarer than a WRX and can be modded just as easily. Plus, I've heard Saab is offering big discounts, so you can get one for about the same price as a WRX.

  4. #18
    Registered User STI4theSlowGuy's Avatar
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    A 9.2X plug that wasnt from me!

    You have to check out the 9-2X if you are looking to more luxury. The idea freaked me out when I went and looked at it too.. but once I completely stopped looking at it as a Saab, and only as a different trim level of subaru (and once i realized 99% of everyone on this forum isnt hating on the 92X) I was sold.

    I walked with mine for $23k with everything.

    You should def check them out.

    E
    2005 9-2X 5MT Blue

  5. #19
    Registered User anthonywrx's Avatar
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    hey man if you got the money for an e46, i would just buy an sti strong tranny, strong car in general.


    jsut my .02

    or you can buy MY wrx you around chicago?
    Quote Originally Posted by psb02wrx
    while you carpe diem, tell her to carpe deez nuts.
    Fun In the Snow
    STi in the making...

  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by anthonywrx
    hey man if you got the money for an e46, i would just buy an sti strong tranny, strong car in general.


    jsut my .02
    Actually I'm trying to keep costs down to a minimum. The less money I spend on my daily driver, the more money I can dump into the m3. The STI is way more money than I want to spend.

    Sometimes I still consider just getting the RS because its so freakin cheap, and comes standard with all kinds of good stuff. I figure I might like the more linear power curve of the naturally aspirated 2.5L than the 2.0L turbo.. BUT - the power potential of the 2.0 turbo keeps making me reconsider.

  7. #21
    Registered User GIRex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmg0001

    Even the hood is solid and doesn't flex, everything down to the airbox in the engine is made well. Like I said before, I was expecting the WRX to be more like a tin can compared to the bimmer, but I was impressed, its a nice little car. And cheap.

    My bmw isn't perfect, there's still things I would change if I could, but its definitely the kind of car I want to drive. It just costs a fortune to maintain..

    I drive my bmw because its a RWD inline six cylinder with a manual transmission.
    You contradict yourself a lot in your comments. You say you drive the BMW just b/c of the drive train. But then you comment on rattles and stiffer suspension and all that. I would not say that its the stiffer suspension. I would say that the reason the bmw "feels" (yes i have driven many) like it is sticking to the road better is the active stability control(which can hinder a lot of power you are "suppose" to have) and the fact that most of them are pigs. The stuff is stiffer because its solid, things sports cars are not suppose to be. It should be safe by other things then a 1/4inch thick(very heavy) trunk and hood. Who cares about what sound it makes when the thing closes. Now my wife might care about those things, but when your talking about what kind of car you want performance wise all of the rattles(mostly from stiffer bushings, and suspension and lighter weight components) you have to think about the car differently.

    From what you have said If I were you I would not buy a wrx. I would get a Z4, mabey a new s2000, and consider an STI after you have driven it a few times. You seem to be looking for a quiet fun "race" inspired car but i could be wrong.
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  8. #22
    Registered User Phat04WRX's Avatar
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    sorry about this dmg0001 but it's bugging me...

    It's spelled SUBARU not SUBURU. I feel better now

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIRex
    You contradict yourself a lot in your comments. You say you drive the BMW just b/c of the drive train. But then you comment on rattles and stiffer suspension and all that. I would not say that its the stiffer suspension. I would say that the reason the bmw "feels" (yes i have driven many) like it is sticking to the road better is the active stability control(which can hinder a lot of power you are "suppose" to have) and the fact that most of them are pigs. The stuff is stiffer because its solid, things sports cars are not suppose to be. It should be safe by other things then a 1/4inch thick(very heavy) trunk and hood. Who cares about what sound it makes when the thing closes. Now my wife might care about those things, but when your talking about what kind of car you want performance wise all of the rattles(mostly from stiffer bushings, and suspension and lighter weight components) you have to think about the car differently.

    From what you have said If I were you I would not buy a wrx. I would get a Z4, mabey a new s2000, and consider an STI after you have driven it a few times. You seem to be looking for a quiet fun "race" inspired car but i could be wrong.
    Uh huh. Not really.

    Stability control doesn't kick in unless you are totally out of control or the traction control kicks on, which is hardly ever. Even then, stability control and traction control are two totally different systems on a bmw. If you had driven a lot of bmw's, you would know this. As a result of them hardly ever coming into play, I would highly doubt that they are making my car a "pig". They are also not contributing to my car's overall stability, which is more attributed to the drivetrain, the weight distribution, the progressive suspension and the wheels/tires.

    I never said I wanted a sportscar, either. I also never said anything about rattles not being caused by a stiff suspension. I also never said that a car should not be made of lightweight materials that may rattle. I prefer a car that is built well and a little slower than a lightweight one that is faster, yes. I also said I was looking for a daily driver and not something to *replace* my bmw. I also said I wanted my daily driver to be cheap and I didn't want to pay bmw size repair bills on my daily driver, which is why I'm not considering an s2000 or a Z4 or an STI.

    So who cares about the trunk rattling when you close it? I do. Do I understand that the car does not perform as well when its heavier? Yup. I think I touched a nerve somewhere in something I said to elicit that response from you, I'm sorry if that is the case. Maybe you thought I was trying to say that the bmw was better than all other cars or something.. I actually was just trying to say that it has its merit for certain people, just as a front wheel drive RSX has merit for some people, even though I would never drive one.

    So its all good.. just depends on what you want. Trust me, I know cars and I'm not contradicting myself. I know what I want out of my cars.. and I don't want them to rattle if I can help it, even if it means I get owned in the 1/4 mile. I really didn't want to segue into a debate about anything, I came here to see if I had gotten the wrong impression of the WRX when I test drove it or not. I just happened to go off a little about why I'd rather drive an M3 than anything else when it was suggested that I drive a subaru instead of an M3. But that's just what *I* want out of a car..

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat04WRX
    sorry about this dmg0001 but it's bugging me...

    It's spelled SUBARU not SUBURU. I feel better now
    Shame on me! The website actually resolves to www.suburu.com so that's the way I've typed it ever since I've been looking into this.. hahaha.. weak. Thanks for the heads up.

  11. #25
    Registered User GIRex's Avatar
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    bmw's are "pigs" just because they are pretty heavy for their size. But that attributes to an added amount of protection. If you have ever dynoed a bmw you would know that the stabilty and tcs has a big play on hp. If the computer doesnt like how fast you are going it will adjust power accordingly... thats why when the new m3 was put on the dyno they werent getting the numbers they were looking for. That also accounts for the beatings some people get off on m3's when they really should be loosing horribly. I actually like z3's and z4's a lot. Would i buy one.. probably not the wife would rather drive a awd audi for the price.

    I think you should consider keeping the bmw as your daily driver not a garage queen.. because thats what it was built for. If your looking for more drivability, better gas mileage, and over all comfort. The wrx is not your car.

    If you wanna have lots of fun on the way to work and a relativly cheap amount of high power, then by all means buy a wrx. Although i would not recommend a new one for you since you wanna modify it. Buy a used one with low miles(a 03 is cheaper to mod), buy and accessport and a turbo back exhaust and a uppipe, A new set of wheels that are a bit wider with more performance tires and call it a day.. you will be out abour the price of the car plus 1500(cheaper depending if you want a catted downpipe or not and what brand and if used) for stage 2 plus what ever you pay for wheels and tires.

    If you want a stiffer suspension.. just adding a wider rear sway bar makes a world of difference, and used ones with upgraded endlinks can be had for less than 200.

    good luck on your quest.. be sure to post pics of the new ride when you get it. and if you want help buying the aftermarket stuff.. i have some great vendors in mind.
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  12. #26
    Registered User GIRex's Avatar
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    oh yeah and if you want that heavy thunk sound when you close your trunk just dynomat the heck out of it.. I would also recommend pulling out the rear deck and re foaming it(very easy and cheap) that accounts for a lot of the noise
    Handling: Kyb AGX struts, Tein springs, camber bolts, Alignment -1.3F/-1.0R
    Looks: Gold powder coated stockers, Tint 30%F/20%rear, Infinity speakers, Sony deck
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    Car domain:http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/852175

  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIRex
    bmw's are "pigs" just because they are pretty heavy for their size. But that attributes to an added amount of protection. If you have ever dynoed a bmw you would know that the stabilty and tcs has a big play on hp. If the computer doesnt like how fast you are going it will adjust power accordingly... thats why when the new m3 was put on the dyno they werent getting the numbers they were looking for. That also accounts for the beatings some people get off on m3's when they really should be loosing horribly. I actually like z3's and z4's a lot. Would i buy one.. probably not the wife would rather drive a awd audi for the price.

    I think you should consider keeping the bmw as your daily driver not a garage queen.. because thats what it was built for. If your looking for more drivability, better gas mileage, and over all comfort. The wrx is not your car.

    good luck on your quest.. be sure to post pics of the new ride when you get it. and if you want help buying the aftermarket stuff.. i have some great vendors in mind.
    Actually stability control and the differential brake can be turned off. I routinely turn mine off. There's only one button for the DSC, and if you turn off DSC it'll leave teh differential brake on, which is bmw's traction control. You actually have to hold the DSC button in for a bit for it to turn both of them off, and then it should behave like a normal car. So if you know people that are having trouble with those systems interfering with racing, that's how to get rid of it.

    And dude, trust me.. if only work was 5 miles away and in the city, I would just drive an M3 to work. But my 325 is already at 50,000+ miles and I routinely drive it through the mud.

    Thanks for the input! I'm sure I'll be back later once I buy something..

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by GIRex
    oh yeah and if you want that heavy thunk sound when you close your trunk just dynomat the heck out of it.. I would also recommend pulling out the rear deck and re foaming it(very easy and cheap) that accounts for a lot of the noise
    I don't think I'll need to.. I thought the WRX was built very solidly. It actually almost seems like its put together better chassis-wise than the RS, but I could have just been imagining that. I think I'll be just fine with the subaru's build quality though.. I may have to go back down there this weekend and check it out again..

  15. #29
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    I think the WRX would make an excellent daily driver for you it's awesome in wet and dry weather has awesome traction and good power. I think that there were two reasons why you didn't feel as if the WRX had enough pick up. One reason is that it isn't broken in. I've had mine for 10k miles now and it's definitely stronger than when i first got it. The other reason is because this is a turbo car and should be driven differently than a NA 6 cyl. You don't get any real power until 3,000rpm and by 4,000 you definitely feel the 227hp. I came from the V8 and NA 4banger world so i was a little annoyed at first with this. But then i realized that i get great mileage (approx. 25mpg) as long as i drive around the 2200 - 3300 rpm area, which is where you're usually at in Los Angeles traffic. Now, whenever i feel like driving "spiritedly" i hang out around 3k rpms mash the pedal and hit boost almost instantly. It takes a little getting used to but once you do it's pretty damn sweet.
    Last edited by Phat04WRX; 01-26-2005 at 01:14 PM.

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phat04WRX
    I think the WRX would make an excellent daily driver for you it's awesome in wet and dry weather has awesome traction and good power. I think that there were two reasons why you didn't feel as if the WRX had enough pick up. One reason is that it isn't broken in. I've had mine for 10k miles now and it's definitely stronger than when i first got it. The other reason is because this is a turbo car and should be driven differently than a NA 6 cyl. You don't get any real power until 3,000rpm and by 4,000 you definitely feel the 227hp. I came from the V8 and NA 4banger world so i was a little annoyed at first with this. But then i realized that i get great mileage (approx. 25mpg) as long as i drive around the 2200 - 3300 rpm area, which is where you're usually at in Los Angeles traffic. Now, whenever i feel like driving "spiritedly" i hang out around 3k rpms mash the pedal and hit boost almost instantly. It takes a little getting used to but once you do it's pretty damn sweet.
    Sweet! Done, then.. that's probably what I'll get. I have some other shiznit to work on in the meantime.. maybe around summer I'll go pick up a WRX. Or wait until they're clearing them out at the end of the year for the 2006's..

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