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This is a discussion on What do you guys think of this review within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I was reading this comparison between the 2015 STi and a BMW and a Mercedes. Now totally ignore the article ...

  1. #1
    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    What do you guys think of this review

    I was reading this comparison between the 2015 STi and a BMW and a Mercedes. Now totally ignore the article for arguments sake and go down and look at the comments. Look at the comment by John M235. The third one down as of now. He actually owns a 2015 STi and has some point that resonate with me a bit.

    BMW M235i vs. Mercedes CLA45 AMG vs. Subaru WRX STI - Motor Trend

    Some comments he made that scare me a bit as I notice some of the same things. My comments are in bold. No bashing of the guy or me please and I couldn't care less about the BMW or Mercedes. That isn't my point. My point is what the guy comments about.

    1. "On the freeway driving 65 or taking off from the average stoplight that the average $40-50k car buyer has to do multiple times a day, the car is a joke. My 2010 GTI was faster in real-world situations, as was my Evo X." - I notice the same thing. STi is slow unless you are in a high rpm range. Which means jack rabbit starts ot downshifting on the freeway.

    2. "The Bimmer laughs at these situations.. it pulls 30+ freeway mpg and needs no downshifts to blow by everything." - same as my comment above

    3. "I bought the STI because of buzzwords like "limited slip differential (3 of them!!1!1!!!1!)," "hydraulic steering," and "driver's car"... I dread driving it because of turbo lag, a fairly unmanageable Jekyll/Hyde motor that's 10+ years old" - I don't dread driving but it's definitely Jekyll and Hyde. Feels like a slow car unless you get it in it's RPM range which is high

    4. "I now grandma an STI Limited around town wondering when I'll get to use its performance for more than 3 seconds at a time without breaking the law or going to the track." - I grandma my car when commuting and it feels like I am; I end up below the speed limit because to get it going so you feel fast you feel like you're going way above it; you have a 3 second fun window of driving at a time
    Last edited by grendels_wrx; 09-02-2014 at 10:05 PM.
    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    What can you say. The low end torque of an I6 is a thing of beauty.

    However, I'd have a lot more complaints about the conditions you are restricted to driving in than how the car handles it. Stoplights are really not the measure of a car, and certainly not these cars. In general the more sporting a car, the less ideal it is for commuting on city streets.

    Subaru motors are noisy - I mean they make a racket when you get them going IMO. It discouraged me a bit at first from using the RPMs as intended, but it didn't last long. They are small motors and they are designed to spend a lot of time in the higher RPMs. I can't think of any small motors gas automobile motors that aren't. Lugging it around is worse.

    What are you cruising at in 6th at 65mph RPMs wise? This comment about it being a dog unless you donwshift there has me puzzled. The little old 2.0 with the 5 speed will haul your ass up over a CO pass just fine without downshifting at that pace and the response will easily catch most people out.

    I really don't get your last comment though. It is up to you to take the car somewhere enjoyable to drive, and it is up to the car to get you there and provide that enjoyment. If you are mired in stoplights all the time there are more luxurious options that will accelerate just fine.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
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    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post

    What are you cruising at in 6th at 65mph RPMs wise? This comment about it being a dog unless you donwshift there has me puzzled. The little old 2.0 with the 5 speed will haul your ass up over a CO pass just fine without downshifting at that pace and the response will easily catch most people out.

    I really don't get your last comment though. It is up to you to take the car somewhere enjoyable to drive, and it is up to the car to get you there and provide that enjoyment. If you are mired in stoplights all the time there are more luxurious options that will accelerate just fine.
    I have to get used to being in a car driving around at high rpm. In comparison to my V-6 Xterra which has tons of torque even at 1k RPM. The STi its like 4K to get that same feeling and it sounds like I gotta get used to it.

    So when u are say going down a regular 45 mph road you e got it humming along in 3k-4k so u got some power when u need it?
    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    In general with small displacement motors you just keep them above 2k pretty much all of the time. Cruising around at 3k RPM is normal and common for me. I have a smaller turbo though that spools at a lower RPM (full boost hits at well below 3K). But yeah, if you aren't willing to use up a little clutch the 2.0 starts off even worse. Add the AC and a hill and it really has to think about getting out of its own way. It is hard to get a smooth intermediate "launch" with the clunky AWD drivetrain and the "on/off" nature of the clutch but it comes with time. I've never done a full launch because I have a much weaker transmission, but it looks fun.
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    Registered User Goose42's Avatar
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    IMHO, the person that made the comments should have done more research on the STi. I think people often get caught up in media hype, and reviews that do not paint the full picture. The car is what it is, and it continues to have a cult following of owners. When I see comments like this, it makes me
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  7. #6
    Registered User nsibanez's Avatar
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    I'd still not give up high end power for low end though...but why can't we have both
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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nsibanez View Post
    I'd still not give up high end power for low end though...but why can't we have both
    I'm not a fanboi of either, but just saying, I think we can. Have both. It just costs more. I will admit I have had a BMW 633 with a 3.3 I6 and a 280Z and I like their motors as well or better than WRX boxers. So smooth. The 633 felt like an airplane taking off from 1.5K or less. Sounded like a jet too. No clatter, vibration, humming, etc.. The WRX boxer motor sounds like it is punching itself to death in the face - clackity, vibration, rumble, with a constant sense if impending self destruction and parts flying out toward your face. I mean the engine noises themselves, not the wonderful exhaust note. Abrupt surges in power, raw, lag, tuned to the ragged edge but able to compensate itself if it needs, the whole nine yards. And yet it can keep sounding terrible like that while providing great performance for as we have see here >300K miles with a good increase in output over stock (stage II or a mild turbo upgrade). I love it, but I do love both.

    I was chatting with some other folks about this recently, and the individual that had driven both felt the BMW 335/135 etc. was "numb". It does like to make the power though. I wonder if it is just a matter of bushings and certain mechanical bits to get it sorted out.

    The actual results I have seen on the internet though show the BMW holding more power stock at high RPM but tapering a bit more 500rpm sooner (5K vs. 5.5K) compared to the new STi. When you look at the other end, they don't even capture where it starts so it just appears "on". It does that WAY below what they are showing. Yummy. It is a badass thing, sorry. But a 335 with xdrive and the M suspension/brake goodies and the extras to get similar appointments inside is not equal to the cost of an STi, at all. You have to take another solid swing at it to get there.



    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
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  9. #8
    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    I'm not a fanboi of either, but just saying, I think we can. Have both. It just costs more. I will admit I have had a BMW 633 with a 3.3 I6 and a 280Z and I like their motors as well or better than WRX boxers. So smooth. The 633 felt like an airplane taking off from 1.5K or less. Sounded like a jet too. No clatter, vibration, humming, etc.. The WRX boxer motor sounds like it is punching itself to death in the face - clackity, vibration, rumble, with a constant sense if impending self destruction and parts flying out toward your face. I mean the engine noises themselves, not the wonderful exhaust note. Abrupt surges in power, raw, lag, tuned to the ragged edge but able to compensate itself if it needs, the whole nine yards. And yet it can keep sounding terrible like that while providing great performance for as we have see here >300K miles with a good increase in output over stock (stage II or a mild turbo upgrade). I love it, but I do love both.

    I was chatting with some other folks about this recently, and the individual that had driven both felt the BMW 335/135 etc. was "numb". It does like to make the power though. I wonder if it is just a matter of bushings and certain mechanical bits to get it sorted out.

    The actual results I have seen on the internet though show the BMW holding more power stock at high RPM but tapering a bit more 500rpm sooner (5K vs. 5.5K) compared to the new STi. When you look at the other end, they don't even capture where it starts so it just appears "on". It does that WAY below what they are showing. Yummy. It is a badass thing, sorry. But a 335 with xdrive and the M suspension/brake goodies and the extras to get similar appointments inside is not equal to the cost of an STi, at all. You have to take another solid swing at it to get there.
    I had an old 280Z and I loved that straight 6. Also love my Xterra just having that 6-cylinder with torque everywhere. I got it because I swore I would never get a 4-cylinder again after my old 97 Eagle Talon (non turbo). Just not enough pickup. Anyways a drive in a regular WRX last year left me knowing what I was in for. I'd have to be revving it alot to get some power out of it and if not it'd feel slow. That shied me away from buying one. Now when I looked at and then started up my STi at the dealer and took a test drive the SPT exhaust got me hooked. So my "never again a 4-cylinder" went out the window.
    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

  10. #9
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Yeah, it comes down to us not accepting the facts, that it was made for that and it isn't abuse. Wind it up and you will be rewarded.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Yeah, it comes down to us not accepting the facts, that it was made for that and it isn't abuse. Wind it up and you will be rewarded.
    13k miles into my '13 and I think I find this harder to accept than when I bought it. Granted, right off the lot, I was burning up with turbo fever but as I've cooled, my willingness to put my foot into it has decreased a bit as well.

  12. #11
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    13k miles into my '13 and I think I find this harder to accept than when I bought it. Granted, right off the lot, I was burning up with turbo fever but as I've cooled, my willingness to put my foot into it has decreased a bit as well.
    Use the force.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  13. #12
    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Use the force.
    The car is very much like my racebike. (125 2-stroke.) You need to rev it high to get some power. No chugging along even at 7k. Gotta be over 10K and preferably around 12K-13k. The STi not to that extreme but in general. I would be very interested in comparing to a new WRX after seeing it's powerband. If after a few years if Subaru were to put that motor in the STi I might jump. I've just gotten way used to the feel of a V-6 and that torque. That would rock...An STi with a flat 6.

    How does a 911 even non-turbo feel in terms of torque and all?

    There is no way I will keep this car to serve as the garage queen it currently is. I did that with my Ducati bikes I used to have when my friends stopped riding. I also worried about the bikes too much as well.

    This is why I've mentioned before in posts I need to find places to go. Seriously I've never been in a car before where I find myself going under the speed limit accidentally so much. I need to get used to keeping that thing in it's happy zone. 5th and 6 gear probably rarely gonna get used.
    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

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    Registered User Raven Logics's Avatar
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    A big factor is cost - if there was an AWD manual car with similar handling and features to my '15 WRX at the same price, but with a more responsive V6 or V8, then I most likely would not have bought the WRX. I would love a V8 but there is nothing which fits my budget, needs and environment as well as my current car.

  15. #14
    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raven Logics View Post
    A big factor is cost - if there was an AWD manual car with similar handling and features to my '15 WRX at the same price, but with a more responsive V6 or V8, then I most likely would not have bought the WRX. I would love a V8 but there is nothing which fits my budget, needs and environment as well as my current car.
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    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

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    Registered User grendels_wrx's Avatar
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    So you guys when you're just going round town, heading to 7-11, grocery store, etc when you go from light to light or whatever are you going up to say 5K every time to get that feeling? Or basically shifting at 3K and thereby grandmaing it around? Basically leaving the sprited driving until you get to a more open area?
    2013 Black STi Limited sedan

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