got an 02 wrx last week
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This is a discussion on got an 02 wrx last week within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; hey guys, just got a black 02, pretty much stock except a wing. ordering my gimmick catback today and probably ...

  1. #1
    Registered User djuhnk's Avatar
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    got an 02 wrx last week

    hey guys, just got a black 02, pretty much stock except a wing. ordering my gimmick catback today and probably a down pipe.

    had an RSX that i turbocharged and a legacy GT before this.

    i was told these can make just under 300hp with stock fuel system. anyone know how much can they make with stock injectors and a walbro or deatchwerks fuel pump??

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    zax
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    First off, what engine management will you be running with the downpipe?

    Second, there won't be an increase in power after adding just a fuel pump. Your FPR will still target the stock fuel pressure, which the OEM pump can do with the standard 420cc injectors. The reason you'd upgrade your fuel pump is after installing higher-flowing injectors, the stock fuel pump will not be able to hit target fuel pressure at high injector duty cycle. Adding a higher-flowing fuel pump will allow the FPR to maintain the target fuel pressure. If you are looking to produce more power (let's not talk brake horsepower here), a downpipe + tune will produce approx. 225whp. That's a 55whp increase over the stock 170whp. Adding a quality TMIC will allow you to target higher boost (less pressure drop across the core) and tune your timing more aggressively. Finally, an EWG and EL headers (with correctly matched primaries) will improve your spool and top-end, but don't expect to make over 250whp with the stock TD04-13T. With even a quality TMIC + Pro tune, you'll benefit from upgraded injectors and fuel pump. As I recall, Cobb maxes the IDCs with the OTS stage 2 map.
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    Registered User djuhnk's Avatar
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    appreciate the response.

    now that i think about it that fuel pump question was a stupid question.
    i installed an entire turbo kit, clutch, FMIC on my old rsx so i know what im doing, just dont know what to buy basically.

    my target is around 300whp i know i need a catback and downpipe. im going to get a new intercooler just dont know which (TM or FM) Im thinking about just sticking with stock injectors, are there any cheap options for new injectors or flow modding them? if i upgrade injectors im thinking about just going E85 and go for about 350 hp.
    you can get around 300 with stock injectors correct?

    also, what 16g turbos are popular around here? cuz i am going to need one of those.

    when its all done im going to get it tuned. accessports are a crock IMO

    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    First off, what engine management will you be running with the downpipe?

    Second, there won't be an increase in power after adding just a fuel pump. Your FPR will still target the stock fuel pressure, which the OEM pump can do with the standard 420cc injectors. The reason you'd upgrade your fuel pump is after installing higher-flowing injectors, the stock fuel pump will not be able to hit target fuel pressure at high injector duty cycle. Adding a higher-flowing fuel pump will allow the FPR to maintain the target fuel pressure. If you are looking to produce more power (let's not talk brake horsepower here), a downpipe + tune will produce approx. 225whp. That's a 55whp increase over the stock 170whp. Adding a quality TMIC will allow you to target higher boost (less pressure drop across the core) and tune your timing more aggressively. Finally, an EWG and EL headers (with correctly matched primaries) will improve your spool and top-end, but don't expect to make over 250whp with the stock TD04-13T. With even a quality TMIC + Pro tune, you'll benefit from upgraded injectors and fuel pump. As I recall, Cobb maxes the IDCs with the OTS stage 2 map.

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    my target is around 300whp i know i need a catback and downpipe. im going to get a new intercooler just dont know which (TM or FM) Im thinking about just sticking with stock injectors, are there any cheap options for new injectors or flow modding them? if i upgrade injectors im thinking about just going E85 and go for about 350 hp.
    you can get around 300 with stock injectors correct?
    No, you're pretty maxed @ StageII levels.

    Since you mention a power level as your goal, what dyno do you want to hit that on? Every one reads differently, so you'll need different modifications to reach it.

    There are a few options for injectors: DW or Injector Dynamics (there's others, but I'd probably go with either of them over other options). DW are modified stock injectors, re-capped (for optimal spray pattern), and flow-tested. IDs are Bosch injectors. If IDs suit your bill, I'd go with them, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    also, what 16g turbos are popular around here? cuz i am going to need one of those.
    Blouch

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    when its all done im going to get it tuned. accessports are a crock IMO
    Not really. They offer base maps for generic modifications for people seeking a plug/play solution to EM. Obviously, a map custom-tailored to your car will be better, but that doesn't mean the AP is a bad purchase.
    Last edited by EJ257; 08-20-2012 at 09:57 AM.
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    FMS
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    Djuhnk,

    Welcome to the club!

    Stage 2 will get you to about 260-270 HP and you will want to keep a TMIC. Your injectors will be fine but they will be pretty much maxed out. Modding stock injectors is not reccommended and it is better to just replace them however this is a hefty job. To get to your 300 HP I would suggest the following:

    Downpipe
    Uppipe (un-catted)
    Electronic Boost Control
    Process West TMIC
    Pro-Tune

    ^That will put you at about 280. I would try that on for size first and if your still not happy in the long run start looking into a turbo upgrade to push you that 20-40 HP more.

    Let me know if you need any parts sir.
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    Registered User djuhnk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    No, you're pretty maxed @ StageII levels.

    Since you mention a power level as your goal, what dyno do you want to hit that on? Every one reads differently, so you'll need different modifications to reach it.
    dyno dynamics, usually reads quite a bit lower than the rest. im not really worried about numbers really i just want a lot of power.
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post

    There are a few options for injectors: DW or Injector Dynamics (there's others, but I'd probably go with either of them over other options). DW are modified stock injectors, re-capped (for optimal spray pattern), and flow-tested. IDs are Bosch injectors. If IDs suit your bill, I'd go with them, personally.
    thanks ive had deatchwerks 800ccs before and they worked great. just wondering about cheaper options
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    Blouch
    16g is pretty much the only next step up right?
    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post

    Not really. They offer base maps for generic modifications for people seeking a plug/play solution to EM. Obviously, a map custom-tailored to your car will be better, but that doesn't mean the AP is a bad purchase.
    yeah i just dont like to think that im getting a map that was made on some other wrx, every engine is different and every set up is different, im just going to get it tuned and stick with that and if i ever need to datalog or pull codes ill get something cheaper than an
    AP

    Quote Originally Posted by FMS View Post
    Djuhnk,

    Welcome to the club!

    Stage 2 will get you to about 260-270 HP and you will want to keep a TMIC. Your injectors will be fine but they will be pretty much maxed out. Modding stock injectors is not reccommended and it is better to just replace them however this is a hefty job. To get to your 300 HP I would suggest the following:

    Downpipe
    Uppipe (un-catted)
    Electronic Boost Control
    Process West TMIC
    Pro-Tune

    ^That will put you at about 280. I would try that on for size first and if your still not happy in the long run start looking into a turbo upgrade to push you that 20-40 HP more.

    Let me know if you need any parts sir.
    thanks for the responses guys

    so the stock turbo will pull 280?
    what do you guys recommend for boost control, just a manual turboxs or is there electronic boost controllers available?

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    dyno dynamics, usually reads quite a bit lower than the rest. im not really worried about numbers really i just want a lot of power.
    You bought the wrong car if you're looking for "a lot of power". Then again, that statement is subjective. My car feels slow to me :shrug:

    As for the DD reading "low", that depends on the CF they use; some use 20%.

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    thanks ive had deatchwerks 800ccs before and they worked great. just wondering about cheaper options
    Witchhunter are the cheapest option out there, as they are modified stockers. They don't re-cap them, so the spray pattern isn't ideal, however. If you're going to bother with injectors, just pay the $400 or so and get a good set.

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    16g is pretty much the only next step up right?
    IHI VF## are also common. A lot of people pick up a used STI takeoff turbo for cheap.

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    yeah i just dont like to think that im getting a map that was made on some other wrx, every engine is different and every set up is different, im just going to get it tuned and stick with that and if i ever need to datalog or pull codes ill get something cheaper than an
    AP
    As long as the car takes the map alright, who cares if it's custom tuned? You may leave some power on the table, but oh well.

    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk
    so the stock turbo will pull 280?
    what do you guys recommend for boost control, just a manual turboxs or is there electronic boost controllers available?
    Again, it depends on the dyno. I doubt the TD04 will be able to get much over 250whp on pump gas on most dynos; the only thing that matters with a dyno plot is area under the curve and the delta, anyway. Pick out a trap speed you want, and we can give you a better idea of what you'll need.

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    zax
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    Don't bother with a 16G, unless you can get a reputable 16G (Turbochargers.com, Blouch, Deadbolt, ForcedPerformance) for less than the price of a VF39/43/48 take-off. Considering you can get a take-off VF39 for $300, it's unlikely that you'll find one.
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    Registered User djuhnk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    You bought the wrong car if you're looking for "a lot of power". Then again, that statement is subjective. My car feels slow to me :shrug:

    As for the DD reading "low", that depends on the CF they use; some use 20%.



    Witchhunter are the cheapest option out there, as they are modified stockers. They don't re-cap them, so the spray pattern isn't ideal, however. If you're going to bother with injectors, just pay the $400 or so and get a good set.



    IHI VF## are also common. A lot of people pick up a used STI takeoff turbo for cheap.



    As long as the car takes the map alright, who cares if it's custom tuned? You may leave some power on the table, but oh well.



    Again, it depends on the dyno. I doubt the TD04 will be able to get much over 250whp on pump gas on most dynos; the only thing that matters with a dyno plot is area under the curve and the delta, anyway. Pick out a trap speed you want, and we can give you a better idea of what you'll need.

    MBC: Hallman or Grimmspeed
    EBCS: GS, TiC, Cobb, or GM (this one isn't plug/play, but it's the least expensive option)
    thanks, i suppose, if i bought an EBCS, my tuner shane would just set it and i could forget it.. unless i had boost issues down the line..


    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Don't bother with a 16G, unless you can get a reputable 16G (Turbochargers.com, Blouch, Deadbolt, ForcedPerformance) for less than the price of a VF39/43/48 take-off. Considering you can get a take-off VF39 for $300, it's unlikely that you'll find one.
    good call,
    found a Vf39 take off already for $300, are they direct bolt ons for my car through 07 sti's? and what do they usually limit out at?

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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk View Post
    found a Vf39 take off already for $300, are they direct bolt ons for my car through 07 sti's? and what do they usually limit out at?
    Yes, it's a bolt-on with proper supporting mods. With proper supporting mods (565cc injectors minimum, quality TMIC, EWG, and TBE), you might see just south of 300whp. With well-matched EL headers, you may say slightly north of 300whp. On corn, you may get 330whp. This is also highly dyno-dependent. You won't want to go higher than 330whp on the stock transmission and motor.
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    Registered User djuhnk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Yes, it's a bolt-on with proper supporting mods. With proper supporting mods (565cc injectors minimum, quality TMIC, EWG, and TBE), you might see just south of 300whp. With well-matched EL headers, you may say slightly north of 300whp. On corn, you may get 330whp. This is also highly dyno-dependent. You won't want to go higher than 330whp on the stock transmission and motor.
    alright, sounds like a plan.
    external wastegate? the internal cant handle it?

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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk View Post
    alright, sounds like a plan.
    external wastegate? the internal cant handle it?
    It's far from ideal.
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    My vf22 on a 2.5L block and LOTS of bolt ons only made 256whp on 93. I think expecting any vf series turbo to make more than 300whp on an ej205 without head work on 93 octane is either being very hopeful, or counting on a generous dyno.

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    alright guys one more question. i ordered a catless uppipe, downpipe, and bigger top mount intercooler. If i were to get a MBC, keep my stock turbo, and got my car tuned on e85 could my stock injectors handle it and what kind of numbers would i be able expect?

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by djuhnk View Post
    alright guys one more question. i ordered a catless uppipe, downpipe, and bigger top mount intercooler. If i were to get a MBC, keep my stock turbo, and got my car tuned on e85 could my stock injectors handle it and what kind of numbers would i be able expect?

    No, e85 requires around 33% more fuel, therefore you need injectors that flow at a minimum 33% more than your stock injectors. I would get at least 750cc injectors to run e85.. but I hardly feel it's worth it on a tiny td04.

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