confused?? need some insight please!!
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This is a discussion on confused?? need some insight please!! within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I am a little new to the subaru game but why do you have to tune the car after you ...

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    confused?? need some insight please!!

    I am a little new to the subaru game but why do you have to tune the car after you change out the stock airbox for a cobb short ram or even changing the up-pipe? just weird to me since any other car you can just slap on a cai or sri and your out driving it within 20 mins and you dont have to tune it. It seems to me your not changing anything at all and the car should be fine, im just a little confused by it all.

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    Registered User jd92677's Avatar
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    The up pipe does not require a tune. The reason for the intake is that the MAF sensor calculates the volume of air going into the engine based on a sample it "sees". So if the diameter of the MAF housing changes at all, that calculation will be incorrect and will cause the car to run lean (if diameter is larger) or rich (if smaller). That's the basic idea behind tuning after an intake. Some people have different positions on whether it is required, but that's the arguement for getting tuned.
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    The Cobb SF intake is designed to mimic airflow characteristics of the stock airbox. In other words, you should be fine without a tune. The intakes that get you into trouble are those that are constructed from a larger-diameter (or smaller) straight tube that causes turbulence. The SF intake is designed with air-straighteners that mimic the stock airflow.

    Many cars are designed with MAP sensor input. With the MAF sensor, any change of airflow across the sensor will change the dynamic of the tune.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scikoticWagon View Post
    It seems to me your not changing anything at all and the car should be fine, im just a little confused by it all.
    OK then think about things this way:

    If as you say, "you are not changing anything at all" then why bother in the first place? What's the point of changing a part?

    Anyway, you don't need a tune for an up pipe, you don't need an up pipe if your motor is 2.5L, and you don't need to change the air box anyway. All of this is valid on an "if you have to ask" basis. For your implied level and purposes, if you have a 2.0L you can look into changing the up pipe (and making the car illegal on public roads anywhere in the US...) but you don't have to bother with an air box or a tune.
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    Captain James of the SS Impreza has gone down with the ship Drews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    if you have a 2.0L you can look into changing the up pipe (and making the car illegal on public roads anywhere in the US...) but you don't have to bother with an air box or a tune.
    Man...way to be a downer! haha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    Man...way to be a downer! haha
    I feel that out of anyone that would potentially classify as a "realist" on this site, SD takes the cake.
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    Registered User kcwrxfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    The Cobb SF intake is designed to mimic airflow characteristics of the stock airbox. In other words, you should be fine without a tune.
    I thought Cobb states you need a tune with their SRI? this is what they posted on their site. *** NOTE ***
    The COBB Tuning SF Intake system for the 2008+ WRX requires use of specific OTS (off the shelf mapping) provided for our AccessPORT ecu tuning device. I just assumed reading that you needed the AP for it.

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    Thanks guys, I understand the whole thing about tuning when you get a bigger air flow coming in since the ecu is trying to figure out what is going on. So with a turbo back or axelback like nameless or something its just bolt and go unless its like a 3 inch all the way through then you need a tune correct? or is it necessary to get a tune with a 2.5 inch pipe?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcwrxfan View Post
    I thought Cobb states you need a tune with their SRI? this is what they posted on their site. *** NOTE ***
    The COBB Tuning SF Intake system for the 2008+ WRX requires use of specific OTS (off the shelf mapping) provided for our AccessPORT ecu tuning device. I just assumed reading that you needed the AP for it.
    That's for the 2008+ new legacy-gt style intake. The old style intake ran the SF intake just fine on the stock tune. I should say, the SF intake provided just as minimal gains on the stock tune as the OTS tunes

    Here is their same statement for the old 2002-2007 intakes:
    The COBB Tuning SF Intake system is compatible with Stage 1 and Stage 2 OTS (off the shelf mapping) provided for our AccessPORT ecu tuning device
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    Quote Originally Posted by scikoticWagon View Post
    Thanks guys, I understand the whole thing about tuning when you get a bigger air flow coming in since the ecu is trying to figure out what is going on. So with a turbo back or axelback like nameless or something its just bolt and go unless its like a 3 inch all the way through then you need a tune correct? or is it necessary to get a tune with a 2.5 inch pipe?
    Any change in the stock airflow characteristics requires a tune. A 3" catback hardly changes the stock airflow characteristics, but a 3" downpipe WILL.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scikoticWagon View Post
    Thanks guys, I understand the whole thing about tuning when you get a bigger air flow coming in since the ecu is trying to figure out what is going on. So with a turbo back or axelback like nameless or something its just bolt and go unless its like a 3 inch all the way through then you need a tune correct? or is it necessary to get a tune with a 2.5 inch pipe?
    If your headlamps are round you do not generally need a tune when you change exhaust components. If your headlamps are any other shape you generally will need a tune when you change exhaust components.

    No matter the shape of your headlamps, you will need to deal with a CEL if you change from a catted up pipe to a catless up pipe, or if you change exhaust components after the turbo.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    If your headlamps are round you do not generally need a tune when you change exhaust components. If your headlamps are any other shape you generally will need a tune when you change exhaust components.
    Only because USDM bugeyes have increased latency between the closed-loop/open-loop fueling transition in the ECM. While your statement holds true for the USDM market, I doubt that your statement will have the same validity for markets worldwide. Bugeyes in other markets received the 32-bit ECM IIRC, so I'm sure a 3" turboback will cause the same boost-spiking that plagues all other models running without a tune...

    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    No matter the shape of your headlamps, you will need to deal with a CEL if you change from a catted up pipe to a catless up pipe, or if you change exhaust components after the turbo.
    Ah yes. Very true, this slipped my mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Bugeyes in other markets received the 32-bit ECM IIRC, so I'm sure a 3" turboback will cause the same boost-spiking that plagues all other models running without a tune...
    I think the 1.6L turbo cars were fine but their mapping was modded at the dealer level anyway so that may be a moot point. I do not know about the 2.0L turbo WRX cars +/- STi.
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    Just to note,

    Your car won't explode if you get an intake and don't tune it. You may not gain as much power as you may want to but thats it. Most MAF based vehicles when added air flow comes in and not changing fueling in the computer itself, they tend to dump more fuel (not saying you'll be running 10:1 a/f or anything but they tend to run richer) and may rob power due to not have as great of a combustion as it would with less fuel.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    I think the 1.6L turbo cars were fine but their mapping was modded at the dealer level anyway so that may be a moot point. I do not know about the 2.0L turbo WRX cars +/- STi.
    Haha I should know better than to argue with someone who has owned cars in other markets

    Quote Originally Posted by KronosPerformance View Post
    Just to note,

    Your car won't explode if you get an intake and don't tune it. You may not gain as much power as you may want to but thats it. Most MAF based vehicles when added air flow comes in and not changing fueling in the computer itself, they tend to dump more fuel (not saying you'll be running 10:1 a/f or anything but they tend to run richer) and may rob power due to not have as great of a combustion as it would with less fuel.
    Well except for maybe that extremely lean condition that might just fry your piston rings
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