Mixed feeling

[BANSwee]

Hey everyone. It's more than 2 months owning my '11 WRX. Last week I got the chance to drive it on a snow covered road (say 5-8 inch snow). Much to much surprise I got this drifting style drive. Whenever I am on a curve I would try to understeer the car so I can compensate but it would always give this oversteer. This is actually "fun" BUT if my wife is on-board she would probably have a heart attack.. God forbid!..

So, anyway how do we correct this. I have a CR-v prior to this WRX but I don't have such scenario. HOnda call it 'real-time 4WD', it only engages the 4WD on slippage. I believe our WRX is full time 50-50 power split. Also worth noting are my tires, I have a conti extreme DWS (all season).

Suggestions/recommendation appreciated!


Thanks

[poly_poly-man]

all-season tires are universally terrible in all seasons (hence the name). If you actually want to go out in snow like that, do the rest of us a favor and get some good winter tires.

[06scoobyrex]

Bizzaks (or anyother winter tire) and weight in the back... I have a sub woofer box with 2 10's and an amp plus 2 50lb bags of rock salt in my trunk... I only have A/S's too, but the extra weight helps too...

[lytlec]

Bizzaks (or anyother winter tire) and weight in the back... I have a sub woofer box with 2 10's and an amp plus 2 50lb bags of rock salt in my trunk... I only have A/S's too, but the extra weight helps too...

Extra weight...I used to do that when I had my focus. Haven't with the wrx yet...

[06scoobyrex]

Extra weight...I used to do that when I had my focus. Haven't with the wrx yet...

I did this with my old Z28 with 6 bags in the back hatch and studded snow tires and ikt was the only safe way to get through the snow... the fastest I dare go was about 40 mile per hour, but its better then driving in circles...lol

[devilfluff]

Best suggestion:

Slow down.

If that doesn't work, get some winter tires.

[confidencebuddy]

It has more weight.

[zax]

AWD helps with traction, but IT ISN'T MAGIC. You will slide in the snow regardless of drive type. It's simple physics ... you have 4 patches contacting the snow. If you overcome the coefficient of friction your car will slide regardless of whether the car is 4 wheel drive or 1 wheel drive. What can you do? Increase the coefficient of friction... that is, invest in some good winter tires. /thread


Actually, this is the reason why you see predominantly 4wd cars/trucks in the ditches during winter storms. Drivers apparently think that 4wd has some magic to keep the car on the road. Jesse is right, your best bet is to slow down. Stability control, AYC, limited slip diffs, active center diffs all help maintain control, but they cannot stop the car from sliding when the friction is lost, remember that...

[Rambo]

AWD helps with traction, but IT ISN'T MAGIC. You will slide in the snow regardless of drive type. It's simple physics ... you have 4 patches contacting the snow. If you overcome the coefficient of friction your car will slide regardless of whether the car is 4 wheel drive or 1 wheel drive. What can you do? Increase the coefficient of friction... that is, invest in some good winter tires. /thread


Actually, this is the reason why you see predominantly 4wd cars/trucks in the ditches during winter storms. Drivers apparently think that 4wd has some magic to keep the car on the road. Jesse is right, your best bet is to slow down. Stability control, AYC, limited slip diffs, active center diffs all help maintain control, but they cannot stop the car from sliding when the friction is lost, remember that...

+1

Last winter, I was driving through a snowy pass where the police required chains or snow tires and were checking every car. A guy in his lowered Audi was absolutely irate, insisting his car had Quattro and was good to go, even though his tires were practically racing slicks. Somehow, he managed to get through the blockade, drove off like a maniac, and... ended up in in a ditch 5 miles later.

I really like the surefooted handling and traction of my subie, but I know my tires and driving style have the greatest impact on traction.

Sent from my Eris using Tapatalk

[Mikie13]

It *doesn't* matter what kind of tires you have on the car...if you drive to the ability that the car has to safely handle the weather, then you're good.

I starred "doesn't" simply because I had an 07 STI with the stock Potenzas, which are Summer high performance tires, and really don't belong in the winter weather. However I knew I shouldn't push them to do thing I knew they weren't made for and I survived with some decent commutes, simply because I just wanted to be safe. However, getting winter tires greatly improves the winter handling, so its a great suggestion to heed.

Slow down, and you'll be a lot better off.

[BANSwee]

AWD helps with traction, but IT ISN'T MAGIC. You will slide in the snow regardless of drive type. It's simple physics ... you have 4 patches contacting the snow. If you overcome the coefficient of friction your car will slide regardless of whether the car is 4 wheel drive or 1 wheel drive. What can you do? Increase the coefficient of friction... that is, invest in some good winter tires. /thread


Actually, this is the reason why you see predominantly 4wd cars/trucks in the ditches during winter storms. Drivers apparently think that 4wd has some magic to keep the car on the road. Jesse is right, your best bet is to slow down. Stability control, AYC, limited slip diffs, active center diffs all help maintain control, but they cannot stop the car from sliding when the friction is lost, remember that...

Just for the sake of a good argument so we can arrived on a theoritecal fact..

The thing is..,, I have driven a FWD and a real time 4WD and both of them handled the snow quite well. BOTh of them wears an All-season tires.. hmm I can say this is my first to actually drift on snow. I would like to add that I did turn with precaution--in other words slowly! There might some explanation on this full time AWD. One I'm considering is that while FWD is only following the back of the car AWD tends to push it. BUT this should not be the case-- it should give me more precise handling/steering to the intended path..

I think for now I would put some things at the back of the car.

(PS. Yes I was alone in the car & nothing of whatsoever at the back..)

[mangostick]

wait wait wait.. you're complaining about over steer on a car notorious for understeer? ......



I'm confused...


However, my confusion aside .. you're comparing (as you accurately mentioned) basically fwd vehicles to a full time awd. Any tire who's traction is broken (spinning or stopped) gives NO directional control regardless of the drivetrain arrangement. Doesn't matter if they're summer or winter or all (3) season tires. The difference between those 3 grades of tire is compound and tread design along with how much/little force it will take to break traction in the conditions they're compared in.
I dont know any tire that grabs well in 5-8" of snow.. none that will fit a car anyway.

if your rear tires are spinning the momentum of the cornering car will carry the rear out.. fwd and rear assisted fwd will not handle like that at all because the rear only have enough torque to maintain road speed and aid the primary drive wheels enough to stop them from spinning. They likely wont spin or stop on their own on a fwd or assisted fwd rig.. so.. given that we have 50/50 with brake actuated traction control.. our cars should behave more like a rwd car in a ultra low traction situation like you had in the deep snow.

Usually the scoobie will push. I'm now very curious to wonder that the changes in front suspension geometry in the 11's has changed how the car likes to react. hmm... things to think about

[SeattleJeremy]

I dont know any tire that grabs well in 5-8" of snow.. none that will fit a car anyway.

This. End of story.
Continental Extreme DWS all season tires are good tires (that's what I'm running on my car right now), but your car cannot contend with snow that deep.

[BANSwee]

This. End of story.
Continental Extreme DWS all season tires are good tires (that's what I'm running on my car right now), but your car cannot contend with snow that deep.

anyways,, yeah sure we can't BUt I guess we have to arm ourselves with information/right technique on driving if ever we have to go out to this kind of weather.

[BANSwee]

wait wait wait.. you're complaining about over steer on a car notorious for understeer? ......



I'm confused...


However, my confusion aside .. you're comparing (as you accurately mentioned) basically fwd vehicles to a full time awd. Any tire who's traction is broken (spinning or stopped) gives NO directional control regardless of the drivetrain arrangement. Doesn't matter if they're summer or winter or all (3) season tires. The difference between those 3 grades of tire is compound and tread design along with how much/little force it will take to break traction in the conditions they're compared in.
I dont know any tire that grabs well in 5-8" of snow.. none that will fit a car anyway.

if your rear tires are spinning the momentum of the cornering car will carry the rear out.. fwd and rear assisted fwd will not handle like that at all because the rear only have enough torque to maintain road speed and aid the primary drive wheels enough to stop them from spinning. They likely wont spin or stop on their own on a fwd or assisted fwd rig.. so.. given that we have 50/50 with brake actuated traction control.. our cars should behave more like a rwd car in a ultra low traction situation like you had in the deep snow.

Usually the scoobie will push. I'm now very curious to wonder that the changes in front suspension geometry in the 11's has changed how the car likes to react. hmm... things to think about

It was really oversteer as per wiki (oversteer is the condition when the slip angle of the rear tires exceeds that of the front tires. Oversteer occurs when the rear tires reach the limits of their lateral traction during a cornering situation but the front tires have not, thus causing the rear of the vehicle to head towards the outside of the corner). I just want to make sure that I was defining what happened.

The feeling at that moment is that, is was more rear biased car rather than 50/50 power distribution. Happened twice, but basically I was a maniac on the second one because I was just trying to make fun on drifting.

I did correct it by not applying anything (i.e. brake, acceleration..)