WRX? or STI? or EVO?

[GrimeMachine]

I'll always remember the first time I watched "The Fast and the Furious": it was the day I fell in love with the Lancer EVO and rally cars in general.

But, that was a loooong time ago. I feel that I've matured, and my tastes have done the same. But I'll always be a rally tuner at heart. But with that shift in maturity, I've fallen head over heels over WRX's and STI's.

Here's a really broad and subjective question for everyone (): which car gives you the best "bang for you buck?" As in, is the EVO more comparable to a WRX or an STI? I'll try and rope the topic in with a few specific questions:

• Gas mileage?
• Horsepower? And by that I mean "useful" horsepower (I know that some people are totally in love with higher numbers, even though torque should be something to consider along with just horsepower)?
• "Head-turning-ness." Like I said, I used to be really into EVO's, but I moved to Maine a couple of months ago and there are Subies everywhere. And I have to stop and look at every one I see :rofl:
• Upgradability. Which car is easier to upgrade/mod? Which is the cheapest? Which gives you the best results per mod?

Feel free to discuss anything else I've missed. I'm totally on the WRX side and would sell both my kidneys for an '07 STI. But I do want input from both sides (I know, maybe it's asking for a little much since this is a WRX forum. But I'm sure there are plenty of you out there that aren't just super-fanboys (or girls!) and are willing to discuss the upsides and downsides to either make, and both models of subies. Thanks!

[Clovis]

I'll always remember the first time I watched "The Fast and the Furious":

I wouldn't start off your introduction with how much you loved the Fast the Ficticious.

How old are you? Can you afford the $600+ STI car payment?
plus insurance? (assuming you're at least 25+, otherwise you can pretty much forget about it).

A STI really only wins over the base WRX on an actual race track. For daily driving - the WRX is tons of fun.

The Evo has their Raliart version which is similar to the WRX as well but a bit more expensive.

[GrimeMachine]

I wish you wouldn't have quoted me on only half my sentence. I never said I liked the movie itself, just that it was my first real experience with the EVO. Yes, I was a kid at the time, and what did "normal" 12 year olds talk about but fast, pretty cars that we knew nothing about and only dreamed we could afford?

But like I said later in my post, times have changed. I'm 21 and I work in the nonprofit field, but I'm slowly weaning myself out of it in preparation for med school. Therefore I'm not into extravagantly blowing tons of money; but I will have one guilty pleasure and I want that to be a tuner/project, and a Subie at that.

I can afford STI payments but I'm not looking to buy a brand new one. My personal favorite body styles are '00-'04 (the '07 STI is the only exception really), and I'm willing to spend the money on babying one of those.

A STI really only wins over the base WRX on an actual race track. For daily driving - the WRX is tons of fun.

The Evo has their Raliart version which is similar to the WRX as well but a bit more expensive.

This is the kind of information that is useful and not inflammatory. Any further comments like this are appreciated. Thanks for your input Clovis.

[synolimit]

simplest explanation

SUBI-comfort, daily driver

EVO-power, racer

more info can be had if you have a year in mind for all 3

[GrimeMachine]

simplest explanation

SUBI-comfort, daily driver

EVO-power, racer

more info can be had if you have a year in mind for all 3

Thanks a lot synolimit; I was really looking for a simple summary of the differences like you did here. I am looking more towards a DD car (comfort is always a plus, haha) for the time being, but I'm looking into significant performance upgrades in the future.

To help you out a little with your last comment, how about we look at '99-'05 Subies and EVO's? That's really the year range I'm looking into.

[synolimit]

Thanks a lot synolimit; I was really looking for a simple summary of the differences like you did here. I am looking more towards a DD car (comfort is always a plus, haha) for the time being, but I'm looking into significant performance upgrades in the future.

To help you out a little with your last comment, how about we look at '99-'05 Subies and EVO's? That's really the year range I'm looking into.

best bang are the EVOs. they can handle crazy amounts of power on the stock items. 07 and down WRX trannies are week while the STI's can handle a lot! the 08+ wrx are also shaping up to handle a lot. 400+TQ seen so far.

gas milage is a moot point because it depends on you and the tune. my car was said to be 25mpg highway stock but after tuning im up to 27-28mpg.

subis will kill evos in low end TQ. you cant fight a 2.5 motor with a 2.0.

evos will stand out more then wrxs but the stis come with the large wings too so its a tie id say. plus 99% subis are bright fing blue!!

if you can work on a car you can mod both but the subis are a pain in the ass!! everything on them sucks to do basically! spark plugs are a nightmere vs 10 minute job for evos.

every Top Gear challenge the evo kills the sti everytime! but both are stock and you can upgrade things like the horrible understeer of the subis to have it compete then.

if you want old go with a evo if your power ungry, but they are uncomfortable to drive everyday!!! a cheap 08 wrx would be one of your best bets! the tranny is great, the inside is comfortable and a 09 wrx turbo makes it the fastest subi. a cheap $900 mod!! the 5speed moves the wrxs around faster then the stis and its thousands cheaper!!

[synolimit]

To help you out a little with your last comment, how about we look at '99-'05 Subies and EVO's? That's really the year range I'm looking into.

hands down then the evo if thats the years your looking at. the evo will destroy the sti. the sti will destroy the wrx. all can be modded though to fight back. in thoughs years i hated all the comforts. all are just cheap honda civic japanese cars. the 04 evo stock, 300HP, 400HP and 500HP had to be one of the best cars i drove. the steering is insane! a millimeter in the steering wheel moves the car 2 feet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8AMIoQUCEvY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdQn1-786LU

[MakeItRoar]

Haha, that seemed just tad one sided

Just messing, although i will disagree on a few points:

The look. I've always LOVED the look of the wrx and sti front to back bumper. and I've always thought the lancers were a little "boxey" as i would put it. Too many straight cuts, not enough curves Definitely a fan of the Subi here (especially 06-07). the interior on the EVO looks plastic, while the STI and wrx (limited) interiors look much sleeker, and match the rest of the car well.

The drivability: I've shared an STI and have a WRX for a few years, and i've also drived the EVO more times than i can count (Although my math has been dwindling ) And the sti and wrx trans/clutch feels much more constant compared to the EVO. The EVO gets a broken in feeling, and becomes a different car to drive manual between every 5-10K. I still stall the WRX once in a while, because, as ive heard it phrased, "The trans is damn near bulletproof". there is no "geared in feeling" on the WRX and STI, compared to the EVO.

Thanks, and good luck with the decision making.
Nothing personal!

[petiks]

hi! maybe this thread can help. a few weeks ago, i was there... http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=2076047

hope this helps...

[bzZ_02wrx]

Hey Grime

I am a new owner of a bug 02 wrx.I love it and its in great nick got a great price, But I would of loved to get the sti as I just crave more power and yeah mods/tunes get exspensive.If you can afford a sti go for it as the extra cash you spend on tuning a wrx will add up !money / power! I owned a lancer 96 GSR 1.8 AWD jdm IMPORT and dam that was unreal, I thrashed it hard and it wouldnt break I love the 4g93 dohc tdo4. It did feel way faster than my wrx. But overall I love the subi interior and the feel, look and drive of the whole car except being worried about tranny but if it goes im going 6 speed ! also to see the bonnet scoop sitting pretty there when I drive, its awsome.

Subi power all the way bro

[mjboudreaux77]

Haha, that seemed just tad one sided

Just messing, although i will disagree on a few points:

The look. I've always LOVED the look of the wrx and sti front to back bumper. and I've always thought the lancers were a little "boxey" as i would put it. Too many straight cuts, not enough curves Definitely a fan of the Subi here (especially 06-07). the interior on the EVO looks plastic, while the STI and wrx (limited) interiors look much sleeker, and match the rest of the car well.

The drivability: I've shared an STI and have a WRX for a few years, and i've also drived the EVO more times than i can count (Although my math has been dwindling ) And the sti and wrx trans/clutch feels much more constant compared to the EVO. The EVO gets a broken in feeling, and becomes a different car to drive manual between every 5-10K. I still stall the WRX once in a while, because, as ive heard it phrased, "The trans is damn near bulletproof". there is no "geared in feeling" on the WRX and STI, compared to the EVO.

Thanks, and good luck with the decision making.
Nothing personal!

I don't know if this is a difference in model years, or WRX vs STI - but, my 07 WRX was a pain to drive in traffic because the clutch was hard to push and it was hard to shift into gear. When really trying to race the car, I had a hell of a time shifting in the gears without either missing a gear or grinding - especially second and third.

My 2011 STI shifts like a dream. Clutch is easy to push, and gears shift with no effort. When I really push the car from a launch - its flawless. No missed gears, and no grinding.

Now... my opinions on the orig question:

If you are about to go to med school, I don't think you are looking for a car that you are going to spend every weekend modifying, so you should most likely compare stock to stock. In my opinion, the new EVOs look great - but the 2011 STI looks better. I really dislike the older EVOs because they look boxy and cheap - almost like they are going to fall apart. The STI has always looked good. I (like most on this forum) chose the Subaru path - you should probably log into an EVO forum and ask the same question.

Another point many people miss.... What are the resale values of an EVO? Subaru resale is strong, and the STI holds value like crazy. I am seeing 2006 STIs up here with 50-60K miles going for $27K.

[GrimeMachine]

I don't know if this is a difference in model years, or WRX vs STI - but, my 07 WRX was a pain to drive in traffic because the clutch was hard to push and it was hard to shift into gear. When really trying to race the car, I had a hell of a time shifting in the gears without either missing a gear or grinding - especially second and third.

My 2011 STI shifts like a dream. Clutch is easy to push, and gears shift with no effort. When I really push the car from a launch - its flawless. No missed gears, and no grinding.

Now... my opinions on the orig question:

If you are about to go to med school, I don't think you are looking for a car that you are going to spend every weekend modifying, so you should most likely compare stock to stock. In my opinion, the new EVOs look great - but the 2011 STI looks better. I really dislike the older EVOs because they look boxy and cheap - almost like they are going to fall apart. The STI has always looked good. I (like most on this forum) chose the Subaru path - you should probably log into an EVO forum and ask the same question.

Another point many people miss.... What are the resale values of an EVO? Subaru resale is strong, and the STI holds value like crazy. I am seeing 2006 STIs up here with 50-60K miles going for $27K.

You bring up a great point mjboudreaux77: I should be comparing stock to stock. I am definitely not planning on modding every weekend or that regularly. Basically my plan is as follows:

Get a Subie (or a Lancer for that matter) in drivable condition. Work on the body a little bit (not ricer-style, but maybe better headlights/taillights, window tints if it doesn't already have them, and new fenders/side skirts if they need replacing), and ride that out for a little bit. Then, I'll move up to "primary" performance mods (exhaust, suspension and things like that; I've been following the sticky thread for first modifications pretty closely). Eventually, I want to try and get it to stage II while doing more serious body/ modifications at the same time (if I don't get new fenders and side skirts in the beginning, I might splurge on a widebody kit - of course this depends on the model of WRX/STI I would get). Does this plan sound like a good approach?

Since I brought up the topic of body modifications, I just want to make it clear that I am in no way trying to be a "ricer." I want a high performance WRX/STI/EVO that looks good, without the idea that I'm trying to be all "hey look at that guy, his car looks so fast but I bet its engine is ****." Personally, I don't like the huge spoiler on the STI, or the EVO for that matter. I understand the importance of air resistance and all that, but let's be real: I live in a city, and the majority of my time spent driving will be in a city. I know the last statement begs the reply, "well, why do you even want engine modifications?" but c'mon!! You all know that having that power is a great feeling, even if you rarely use it.


Again, to try and corral the discussion a bit, let me say that I absolutely love the torque on Subies. I've been switching between a '97 Impreza sport wagon and an '06 mazdaspeed3 recently, and man does that Impreza kick ass! Yes, it doesn't get going as quickly as the ms3 might (keep in mind there's basically a 10 year difference in the cars, so that might be a part of it), but the torque I feel in the first gears of the Impreza make it my hands-down favorite between the two. So, my next question is, how does the torque (low-end and high-end) compare in WRXs/STIs and EVO's? I know I can look up the numbers--and I have--but I'd like to hear more from personal experiences. Thanks!

[MakeItRoar]

I don't know if this is a difference in model years, or WRX vs STI - but, my 07 WRX was a pain to drive in traffic because the clutch was hard to push and it was hard to shift into gear. When really trying to race the car, I had a hell of a time shifting in the gears without either missing a gear or grinding - especially second and third.

My 2011 STI shifts like a dream. Clutch is easy to push, and gears shift with no effort. When I really push the car from a launch - its flawless. No missed gears, and no grinding.

Now... my opinions on the orig question:

If you are about to go to med school, I don't think you are looking for a car that you are going to spend every weekend modifying, so you should most likely compare stock to stock. In my opinion, the new EVOs look great - but the 2011 STI looks better. I really dislike the older EVOs because they look boxy and cheap - almost like they are going to fall apart. The STI has always looked good. I (like most on this forum) chose the Subaru path - you should probably log into an EVO forum and ask the same question.

Another point many people miss.... What are the resale values of an EVO? Subaru resale is strong, and the STI holds value like crazy. I am seeing 2006 STIs up here with 50-60K miles going for $27K.

You wanna know why? The WRX has a spring on the clutch, STI's have a hydraulic assist. You could have changed the spring to a weaker one, but the hydraulic clutch is an amazing way to shift for STI's. I wish i could install one in my WRX.

[Clovis]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to flame you.

The EVO is a fun car. I was tempted to buy one and a buddy at work has an EVO 8.

It has lots of acceleration and handles. In a race enviroment the EVO typically beats out the Subi.

But the price that you pay is, it looks like a race car. If that's what you're going for, then that's fine. But keep in mind med school is extremly time consuming. Even once your done you have your residency to complete. I would wait until you're older to get something like this - who knows what the future will bring.

But in all fairness when i was your age I bought a 95 Talon TSi AWD (same motor as the now older EVOs - the 4g63). Very easy to work on. I kept killing my throw out bearings that I got to the point of being able to drop the tranny and replace the bearing in an afternoon. When I look at the engine bay of my WRX, I'm like "uhh, yeah I'll have the dealer replace the plugs when its time".

But I was 20 or 21 when I bought that. I got it to run very fast quarter mile times - around 350 HP at the wheels but something broke on it at least once a month.

Anyhow, so fast forward to today - I'm 29 and a half. I work work in major financial sales. I wanted a car that I could enjoy (a lot) but still take out clients to lunch without feeling embarrassed that I'm in a race car and they're my parents age with lots and lots of money.

For me, the WRX does that. I was tempted to get a limited for the heated leather seats but for $6500 more (there was only 1 in the state and they wouldn't deal at all - they wanted full MSRP plus all fees, while I bought my 11 base WRX for $24500 (24000 + $500 D&H fee) and taxes - out the door cost came to $26k).

I can replace the seats with heated leather later on if I really want to.

It's really just perspective but keep in mind you're taking a huge gamble when you buy a used EVO/WRX/STI because most of the cars are owned by your peers and abuse them or neglect them when it comes to maintence.

My personally, I'm going to have the maintence done by Subaru so I can document when I sell it in 3-4 years and get the new WRX or whatever.

-Clovis

[GrimeMachine]

Clovis, how easy/difficult is it for licensed Subaru technicians to assess abuse/mistreatment of a used WRX if I were to bring it in? From reading other threads, I know that lots of dealerships won't even look at a car that is modded; I was just wondering your opinion on this.

Also, is it feasible to bring a modded WRX to "stock" condition for a sale? Meaning, if I found a rex that I really liked, could I reasonably ask the owner to try and do something like that?