Dealer sold me an illegal car
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This is a discussion on Dealer sold me an illegal car within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; so i found out tonight that my exhaust is completly cat-less which means there is no way it will pass ...

  1. #1
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    Dealer sold me an illegal car

    so i found out tonight that my exhaust is completly cat-less which means there is no way it will pass emissions here in Tucson. luckily its been only 4 days since i bought it.

    im going to the dealer tomorrow, what should i try and have them do for it? i was thinking have them get me the stock exhaust turbo back and just give it to me so i have it when i need to pass emmissions.

    anyone have any suggetions? i like the exhaust i have now, a Helix catless DP with a magnaflow cat back and would love to keep it

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    Registered User Bedhead42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rtm2006 View Post
    so i found out tonight that my exhaust is completly cat-less which means there is no way it will pass emissions here in Tucson. luckily its been only 4 days since i bought it.

    im going to the dealer tomorrow, what should i try and have them do for it? i was thinking have them get me the stock exhaust turbo back and just give it to me so i have it when i need to pass emmissions.

    anyone have any suggetions? i like the exhaust i have now, a Helix catless DP with a magnaflow cat back and would love to keep it
    i know here in colorado it is illegal to sell a car that wont pass emitions, i would go back to them and ask for a stock exhaust and some money for your inconvenience.

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    Registered User T.J.'s Avatar
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    Talk to people in your local forum. South Western States - ClubWRX Forum - Subaru Impreza WRX and STi Community and Forums

    In many cases it is easier than you think to pass emissions w/ a catless car. I know it is in OR.

    Otherwise, I like your idea of having the dealership give you a used downpipe or something to make the car legal. They probably are not supposed to sell the car that way technically.

    Good luck, T.J.
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    yeah i know how i can pass emmissions here the way they sold it to me. but at this point its about getting something from the dealer cause they sold me an illegal car.

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    Registered User Bedhead42's Avatar
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    now that i think about it my friend bought his STI form a guy that lived in Arizona and he said they didn't need any sort of cats to pass, so i don't know if it is technically illegal in AZ

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    the test here in tucson is a obd2 scan for codes. with a catless exhaust you get a code for bank 2 o2 sensor and fail so it wont pass emissions "the way they sold it to me"

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    Oh. Did you know what you were getting when you bought it? If so, good luck scamming a car dealer. They wrote that book.

    If not, I suppose they might just offer to swap the aftermarket exhaust for a used stock one. But that doesn't sound like what you are after.
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    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    You could register a catless gas powered shopping cart in AZ and it would be legal. Good luck.

    FWIW it is against Federal law to modify emissions equipment on any vehicle (dunno about selling with previously modified equipment). But if you're state does not do emissions testing, then good luck getting any kind of action. Technically (at least here in Commiefornia) on an OBD2 car, only the factory CAT setup is legal, so if they offer to install an aftermarket CAT it wouldn't pass the mustard. Dunno if that is Federal, but it may be. If they are an authorized Subi dealer (which I doubt) then you can contact subaru regarding it.
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    Automobile dealers are required to have vehicles inspected.

    Used vehicles, delivered by an Arizona automobile dealer located inside the emissions control areas of metro Phoenix (Area A) or Tucson (Area B) are required to pass an emissions inspection, prior to delivery to the purchaser, unless the vehicle is otherwise exempt. The dealer is responsible for the cost of the emissions inspection and any repairs necessary to pass the inspection. Arizona automobile dealers located outside of the emissions control areas are also responsible for the cost of the emissions inspection and any repairs necessary to pass the inspection, if the purchaser resides inside an emissions control area. However, the dealer is not required to have the inspection performed prior to delivering the vehicle to the purchaser.
    from ADEQ: Vehicle Emissions: Dealer Information

    i just found out today that it didnt have a cat and they didnt tell me that it didnt have one.

    and im not trying to scam them. its more that i just want the equipment required for my car to pass and also keep what it has now.

    edit: i wonder if the PO tuned out that sensor so it doesnt pop the code and it does "pass" the emissions here... anyone know a way i can tell?
    Last edited by Rtm2006; 12-17-2008 at 08:00 PM.

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Read your local emissions laws - if your state requires a visual inspection of the ECDs, you have every right to get them to give you an OEM exhaust.

    FWIW: the same thing happened to me, but I work for the state environmental agency (at the time, in the Division of Air Resources repairing/replacing air pollution monitoring equipment lol), so they bent over backwards to ensure that I got the OEM exhaust in a timely fashion
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    You have the right to a "free" factory TBE if it is in fact illegal to sell you a car like that. The catch here is that it's your responsibility to return the catless exhaust to the dealer. It's not fair for you to keep the catless exhaust and not pay a dime for the stock exhaust. Fair is fair...and like you said you arent trying to scam the dealership.


    If you do not currently have a CEL then you probably have some sort of ECU flash on the vehicle.

    Again buying a modded vehicle is really at your own risk.
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    Registered User JMack's Avatar
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    Okay, I have a couple questions:

    1. Did you buy the car inside or outside the immediate Metro Pheonix or Metro Tuscon area?
    2. Was the car listed in "AS IS" condition?
    3. What year is the car?


    Answers to the questions regarding this issue:

    1. If you didn't buy it withing those areas, you're not getting a catted system
    2. If it was "AS IS", you're not getting a catted system
    3. If the car falls into the grace period (in Kalifornia I think it is 2-5 years) you're PROBABLY not getting a catted system


    T.J. is right, they wrote the book on scamming, so it may not even be worth it. Check craigslist, ebay, or the classifieds here for a used TBE (stock) and call it a day.
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi
    You have the right to a "free" factory TBE if it is in fact illegal to sell you a car like that. The catch here is that it's your responsibility to return the catless exhaust to the dealer. It's not fair for you to keep the catless exhaust and not pay a dime for the stock exhaust. Fair is fair...and like you said you arent trying to scam the dealership.
    I got to keep my catless exhaust when I went through this - then again, they wanted to make sure that I was 100% happy when I walked out their door.
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    Quote Originally Posted by idipskoalmint View Post
    I got to keep my catless exhaust when I went through this - then again, they wanted to make sure that I was 100% happy when I walked out their door.
    If that's the case great...but I wouldnt call that "fair".

    The debate beyond the potential legal issue is do they want/need to make you happy...or just make the sale.
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi
    If that's the case great...but I wouldnt call that "fair".
    I would agree that it wasn't necessarily "fair" - however, I was forced to drive 300 miles to have them make it right.

    Quote Originally Posted by 302@12psi
    The debate beyond the potential legal issue is do they want/need to make you happy...or just make the sale.
    If I had filed a complaint through work, they would lose their ability to inspect vehicles, and therefore, sell them (most likely, for a period of time similar to alcohol sale violations). They wanted me out of their shop ASAP.
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