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This is a discussion on ?s about 05 4eat sedan within the New Member Hangout forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; OK, I am completely new to this whole scene and have several questions that I hope you guys and gals ...

  1. #1
    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Question ?s about 05 4eat sedan

    OK,
    I am completely new to this whole scene and have several questions that I hope you guys and gals can help me with.

    1: What mods/upgrades can I do to my 05 4eat to make it capable of keeping up with stock STI's and 350Z's (my wife owns a Z and there is no way I'm gonna allow her car to be faster than mine, and as of right now she kills my WRX even though both cars are automatics!)?

    2: I am planning on making the following upgrades by the end of this year:

    Invidia GT-200 Cat Back Exhaust
    Invidia CATTED Down Pipe
    Perrin Up Pipe
    Perrin Light Weight Crank Pulley
    Cobb Accessport ECU v2.0

    I'm also going to have the guys over at TurboTrix create a custom map. In your opinions, are these "smart" first mods? Anything else I should add to this list (besides a TC, see next question)? About how much power gain can I expect from this setup (I know this is nearly impossible to predict but I just don't trust COBB's claim of +50hp)?


    3: Lastly, I have read many posts claiming that all 4eats need to have a TC in order to build boost. Is this mod really that important or can it wait until after I make the mentioned upgrades? Keep in mind that I am planing on eventually having the folks over at IPT upgrade me to a performance transmission.


    I appreciate you guys and gals taking the time to answer any of these.

    And please don't answer back with "get a 5 speed" cuase that really doesn't answer any of my questions.

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    The mods you listed are good. So no worries there. You could go opensource tune and save a few $, but either way you'll have engine management.

    If you can get a custom tune somehow, the spool will happen so fast on a stage 2 WRX, that your stock converter will provide a stall speed high enough to get good launches. So you wont need to really be replacing that.

    And yes, you can believe cobb when they say 50hp gain. Stage 2 is an amazing thing, but keep in mind you will still no be beating stock STI's and 350Z's. To beat them with an automatic, you'll need a turbo upgrade to something along the lines of a VF39, or VF34, VF30. Then you'll need to raise your stall speed and get a new TC or else be slow off the line. And to hold that power, an upgraded valve body would be a good idea, but she'd probably hold up for a while.

    You'll need significantly more power than the Z, to beat it. You have huge drivetrain losses plus you are down in the count already from only having 3 usable gears in a race.
    Last edited by xsnapshot; 11-25-2008 at 07:16 AM.

  4. #3
    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
    The mods you listed are good. So no worries there. You could go opensource tune and save a few $, but either way you'll have engine management.

    If you can get a custom tune somehow, the spool will happen so fast on a stage 2 WRX, that your stock converter will provide a stall speed high enough to get good launches. So you wont need to really be replacing that.

    And yes, you can believe cobb when they say 50hp gain. Stage 2 is an amazing thing, but keep in mind you will still no be beating stock STI's and 350Z's. To beat them with an automatic, you'll need a turbo upgrade to something along the lines of a VF39, or VF34, VF30. Then you'll need to raise your stall speed and get a new TC or else be slow off the line. And to hold that power, an upgraded valve body would be a good idea, but she'd probably hold up for a while.

    You'll need significantly more power than the Z, to beat it. You have huge drivetrain losses plus you are down in the count already from only having 3 usable gears in a race.
    Thank you soooo much for your input, you have no idea how much this helps!
    I’m glad to hear that COBB’s claims are true, very exciting!
    Also, after having experienced turbo lag for the very first time, I’m a little nervous about upgrading to a larger turbo since I read the larger the turbo the more lag. Which of the turbos mentioned would you say has the least lag? I would have to kill myself if I start getting beat by Hondas with coffee can mufflers in the take off after I drop so much money into my WRX!

    Guess the wife will have the faster car……FOR NOW!!!!

  5. #4
    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Last questions,
    Since I am planning on getting a turbo kit sometime next year, should I not bother with the up-pipe for now? I noticed that most turbo kits bring an external wastegate up-pipe and I would hate to waste money on the Perrin up-pipe now, only to find out that it isn’t compatible with the turbo kit I will purchase next year. Another option would be to purchase an external wastegate up pipe now in place of the Perrin up-pipe, what are the positives and negatives of going this route?

    Thanks again for your help!

  6. #5
    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eat_Newbie View Post
    Last questions,
    Since I am planning on getting a turbo kit sometime next year, should I not bother with the up-pipe for now? I noticed that most turbo kits bring an external wastegate up-pipe and I would hate to waste money on the Perrin up-pipe now, only to find out that it isn’t compatible with the turbo kit I will purchase next year. Another option would be to purchase an external wastegate up pipe now in place of the Perrin up-pipe, what are the positives and negatives of going this route?

    Thanks again for your help!
    You want to replace the UP.

    Blouch Turbo Inc. - Our performance turbo upgrades and rebuilds

    Look into a that turbo - these will spool similar to stock, but give you a good bump in performance. You'll also need to mate it with 650cc injectors, Walbro, full exhaust (UP and TBE). Get a good custom tune. At this point, you'll be beating up on stock STi/Z
    2005 WRX STi (Mods | Virtual Dyno)

    Resident Tuner @ WTF Tuning, LLC

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    External waste gates are more often found on higher HP cars. They will provide greater control over boost when used correctly and will net a few more HP. The EJ205 motor (which you have) is generally acknowledged as being able to supply about 300HP to the wheels before you reach into the territory of reliability concerns. Others push more HP, but there are unique ones in every bunch. The quality of your tune will have more of an impact on your reliability. So in essence you really don't need an external wastegate unless you want one.

    I wouldn't go rotated turbo if i was you. Its a LOT of money, and you could get the same stock location turbo HP for cheaper.

    There are many more options than the ones i have stated for turbo's. If I were you I would look into getting the small 16G Ported and Polish from Deadbolt. With that turbo and a tune you should expect to see around 260 to wheels on your automatic WRX. You'll also want to get some bigger injectors (560cc is good) and a new fuel pump. Then you'll need a larger TMIC as well. FMIC's will add additional lag you don't need.

    The uppipe should be one of your first mods. You don't even need engine management to do it. Gutting your own uppipe is the cheapest route, and will provide the best fitment. Always use new gaskets. Always.

    You'll definitely want the higher stall TC if you go with the bigger turbo. Keep in mind at that power level, unless you firm up the shifts, your transmissions life will be shortened. But you said you were getting an IPT tranny so that's probably not a big worry.

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    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by idipskoalmint View Post
    You want to replace the UP.

    Blouch Turbo Inc. - Our performance turbo upgrades and rebuilds

    Look into a that turbo - these will spool similar to stock, but give you a good bump in performance. You'll also need to mate it with 650cc injectors, Walbro, full exhaust (UP and TBE). Get a good custom tune. At this point, you'll be beating up on stock STi/Z
    Beating up stock STIs and Zs….LOVE IT!!!!
    Thank you so much for this info….I will take your advice about the turbo.
    Any idea how much $$$$ this set up will run me (what you suggest plus the $2150 for the mods I listed earlier)?

  9. #8
    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
    External waste gates are more often found on higher HP cars. They will provide greater control over boost when used correctly and will net a few more HP. The EJ205 motor (which you have) is generally acknowledged as being able to supply about 300HP to the wheels before you reach into the territory of reliability concerns. Others push more HP, but there are unique ones in every bunch. The quality of your tune will have more of an impact on your reliability. So in essence you really don't need an external wastegate unless you want one.

    I wouldn't go rotated turbo if i was you. Its a LOT of money, and you could get the same stock location turbo HP for cheaper.

    There are many more options than the ones i have stated for turbo's. If I were you I would look into getting the small 16G Ported and Polish from Deadbolt. With that turbo and a tune you should expect to see around 260 to wheels on your automatic WRX. You'll also want to get some bigger injectors (560cc is good) and a new fuel pump. Then you'll need a larger TMIC as well. FMIC's will add additional lag you don't need.

    The uppipe should be one of your first mods. You don't even need engine management to do it. Gutting your own uppipe is the cheapest route, and will provide the best fitment. Always use new gaskets. Always.

    You'll definitely want the higher stall TC if you go with the bigger turbo. Keep in mind at that power level, unless you firm up the shifts, your transmissions life will be shortened. But you said you were getting an IPT tranny so that's probably not a big worry.
    Yea, rotated turbo kits do run $$$$, but as a noob I figured more $$$ = more power/performance/reliability. This is why I asked these questions, so that you (the experts) can guide me in the right direction.

    If there external wastegate up-pipe really serves little purpose, I would rather do without it….this will save me nearly $100 and I would be able to use that money for something else.

    Let’s say I have already installed the Invidia TBE, Perrin up-pipe, crank pulley, COBB AccessPort, and performed the “Resonator-Ectomy” (all should set me back anywhere between $2K to $2.5K). What other parts would I require in order to make the upgrade to the 16G turbo possible and how much more should I expect to spend (wife gave me a limit of $3.5K)?

  10. #9
    The Default One SeattleJeremy's Avatar
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    4eat_Newbie, now you've done it. Gal350Z, knows your plans. She'll start buying mods of her own, and continue to be faster.

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    Registered User Micah's Avatar
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    Turbotrix is mainly a Mitsubishi shop. I'd recommend you go to Precision Tuning instead. Rich and his crew over at Precision Tuning have done all the work on my car. From oil changes, to mods and dyno tuning - they do it all.

    Oh, and I own a 350Z and a WRX. I think it's safe to say that any turbo upgrade will put you ahead of the 350Z. Personally I'm a fan of the vf34, but the 16g is a great choice as well.
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    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy96gase View Post
    4eat_Newbie, now you've done it. Gal350Z, knows your plans. She'll start buying mods of her own, and continue to be faster.
    LOL
    That was my wife...I asked her to remove her comment so that the post doesn't lose focus!! I really need to beat her Z otherwise I'll never hear the end of it!

  13. #12
    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micah View Post
    Turbotrix is mainly a Mitsubishi shop. I'd recommend you go to Precision Tuning instead. Rich and his crew over at Precision Tuning have done all the work on my car. From oil changes, to mods and dyno tuning - they do it all.

    Oh, and I own a 350Z and a WRX. I think it's safe to say that any turbo upgrade will put you ahead of the 350Z. Personally I'm a fan of the vf34, but the 16g is a great choice as well.
    I also own both cars....which is why I would be happy if I am able to generate the kind of whiplash the Z gives in my WRX.

    Thanks for the link, I will check them out....they're only an hour drive away so if I like what I hear I might go with them for all my tunning needs. thanks again man!

  14. #13
    The Default One SeattleJeremy's Avatar
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    Just keep in mind, mods for the WRX have a better HP to Dollar ratio. So if this turns in to an Arms Race, the WRX should come out ahead.

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    Registered User 4eat_Newbie's Avatar
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    OK,
    I am really liking the Deadbolt ZILLA TD05H Super 16G turbo’s price and claims on performance. I think I will add this to my setup and have the whole things installed at PrecisionTuning. Will I definitely need to upgrade the injectors and fuel pump to support this turbo? Anything else I will need in order to make this run?

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4eat_Newbie
    Beating up stock STIs and Zs….LOVE IT!!!!
    Thank you so much for this info….I will take your advice about the turbo.
    Any idea how much $$$$ this set up will run me (what you suggest plus the $2150 for the mods I listed earlier)?
    Quote Originally Posted by 4eat_Newbie
    OK,
    I am really liking the Deadbolt ZILLA TD05H Super 16G turbo’s price and claims on performance. I think I will add this to my setup and have the whole things installed at PrecisionTuning. Will I definitely need to upgrade the injectors and fuel pump to support this turbo? Anything else I will need in order to make this run?
    You'll need at least 565cc injectors, but spend the extra few $$ and get 650s (you'll be close to max on 565, if not maxed), and a Walbro is pretty cheap, and you'll want it.

    If it were my setup, I'd do the following (I'd probably get Maddad V2 One-Piece DP + Buschur Racing CBE instead of Invidia though) ...

    Invidia DP: $475
    Invidia G200: $600
    Grimmspeed UP (ceramic coated): $200
    DeatschWerks 650cc injectors: $350
    Walbro FP: $110 (get w/ setup kit, because it comes with new filter)
    3-port BCS: $50
    16G + ceramic coating: $1000
    Open-source tune from Precision: $400

    Total: ~$3300

    NOTE: You'll want some gauges to be able to monitor your car as well - the most popular setup is Boost/EGT/OP


    To save some $$, look into purchasing your exhaust parts and gauges used (I'd buy new fuel system components and turbo, though).
    Last edited by EJ257; 11-25-2008 at 01:31 PM.
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    "Never trust anything that bleeds for a week and lives ..."

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