The Official 2015 WRX & STi Thread - Page 54
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This is a discussion on The Official 2015 WRX & STi Thread within the New Cars/Prototypes Forums forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by sreggie101 i don't post here often Welcome. Glad you made your 1st post. No longer a ClubDub ...

  1. #796
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    Quote Originally Posted by sreggie101 View Post
    i don't post here often
    Welcome. Glad you made your 1st post. No longer a ClubDub virgin

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    Quote Originally Posted by sreggie101 View Post
    ...never understood the hate about the car...esp the 300hp is too little argument, that just made...no sense.
    Because this car has been putting out roughly the same amount of power for 20 years. It's not exactly progress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soobvirgin View Post
    Because this car has been putting out roughly the same amount of power for 20 years. It's not exactly progress.

    I looked at a 2010 Boxster S and Cayman S yesterday. Those can be picked up around 40K with 30K miles on them. While clearly not 4 doors and 4 seats, they are still a whole lot of fun to drive. I looked back at some 2006 and 2007 posts, and see some other STI to Boxster S comparisons. Back then, the consensus was the STi was a bit faster. I doubt that is the case today. Other cars are getting better and faster year after year, or at least every few years. What was a great 300HP in 2004 in now getting caught by every decent sedan out there. Power is not everything, but it does count for a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Soobvirgin View Post
    Because this car has been putting out roughly the same amount of power for 20 years. It's not exactly progress.
    Peak power.. roughly. However, torque curve and usable-controllable power on roads and still suited for daily driving relative to modern competition with modern EPA requirement and mileage pressures though... It's not even close.

    I realize that that it's not nearly as sexy now as when most of the price point competition was far behind in terms peak power numbers but to suggest that the driving experience today is not significantly differentiated to what it was 20 years ago in an STi because the peak power numbers are in the same ball park is silly IMHO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
    Peak power.. roughly. However, torque curve and usable-controllable power on roads and still suited for daily driving relative to modern competition with modern EPA requirement and mileage pressures though... It's not even close.

    I realize that that it's not nearly as sexy now as when most of the price point competition was far behind in terms peak power numbers but to suggest that the driving experience today is not significantly differentiated to what it was 20 years ago in an STi because the peak power numbers are in the same ball park is silly IMHO.
    this was my point earlier in the debate; peak power only sells cars; torque is what gives you that rush (and giant boner) when mashing the accelerator...
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
    ...but to suggest that the driving experience today is not significantly differentiated to what it was 20 years ago in an STi because the peak power numbers are in the same ball park is silly IMHO.
    I didn't suggest that. I'm sure it's completely different. But in 1994 the STi was putting out, what, 280hp? At that time, for the price, it was astonishing. BMW's M3 was putting out 286hp and was significantly more expensive than the STi. But in the last 20 years, other manufacturers have caught up with that power and are producing cars at a similar price. The M3 now puts out 425hp. For the STi to still have the same AWDeconoboxwithcrazypower appeal, it would need to be putting out about 420hp. I'm just sad that it's lost its competitive edge, that's all.

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    torque is a mathematical proposition based on horsepower, and vice versa. These cars have put out roughly similar power output for 10 years, no matter what slight differences they have in the torque band. Granted, the 2015's improve the torque band on the WRX, but we've yet to see what the STi looks like. It's been a week since the reveal, still no reviews. That's not a good sign either if Subaru is waiting for the crowds to quiet down before they let those out. WRX reviews were out within a week of the reveal. Also, I'd like to complain for a second..I went to the Silicon Valley Auto Show, and they have the 2014 WRX Hatchback! and the 2014 Sedan on display. What is up with Subaru? No 2015 Model, and they put out there a Hatch that they don't even sell anymore...What genius came up with this?

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    I traded my 300hp STi in on a 425hp SRT8 Charger. Looking at peak numbers and even torque curve the srt8 should have been far and away way better experience. It was not. I regretted my decision in many ways (although there were some very tangible benefits too at the time when I switched) because it simply was not nearly as much fun to drive. That point was brought home dramatically when ever it was raining. All that gobs of extra hp and extra torque was practically useless and moreover was not just less fun but less safe. Granted I wasn't driving a $60K M3 but the point still holds.

    This is year it will very likely be back in an STi.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
    I traded my 300hp STi in on a 425hp SRT8 Charger. Looking at peak numbers and even torque curve the srt8 should have been far and away way better experience. It was not. I regretted my decision in many ways (although there were some very tangible benefits too at the time when I switched) because it simply was not nearly as much fun to drive. That point was brought home dramatically when ever it was raining. All that gobs of extra hp and extra torque was practically useless and moreover was not just less fun but less safe. Granted I wasn't driving a $60K M3 but the point still holds.

    This is year it will very likely be back in an STi.
    How heavy is that thing?

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeemtn View Post
    How heavy is that thing?
    With twice the cylinders and about 2.44 times the displacement of the STi, it was roughly 800lb heavier.
    In stock form though it still only takes 5.0 seconds to get to 60mph (of course that's only on clean/dry pavement in a straight line).
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    Quote Originally Posted by 96accord View Post
    Welcome. Glad you made your 1st post. No longer a ClubDub virgin
    ha thanks man. figured its time i see what this forum is all about. got tired of lurking in nasioc and people getting ripped apart for questions dumb or not...


    Quote Originally Posted by Soobvirgin View Post
    Because this car has been putting out roughly the same amount of power for 20 years. It's not exactly progress.
    that's fair. i can def where you're coming from, especially since base sedans are getting more hp albeit slowly.

    still, personally i wouldn't say its even remotely bad even by today's standards. i've always understood it to be the torque that gives the STI its edge + fun factor, not just the hp. im not a rally driver, nor do i autocross, i guess im just a...spirited driver who likes to have fun with the turbo at 11pm on a sunday night on the Connecticut turnpike...without any trouble from storm troopers. the way i see it, the STI could have 500hp, at the end of the day, it still ships with a speed limiter, and ill never cruise at over 100 on any highway i can see myself ever driving on. 300 is plenty for me, and so long as i can really lay down the power thru a turn or corner, and boost thru/into traffic, im cool nyumsayin? thats just me tho..

    power gripes aside, if there was one thing i thought was bs from WRXs or STIs, its the lack of quality in interior + features/amenities. i.e. all weather package should have been standard on an STI, as well as fogs. for that kind of money, i shouldn't be out featured by a XV or...w.e.

    anyways my hatch is fun as hell, but im really liking this new STI.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeemtn View Post
    torque is a mathematical proposition based on horsepower, and vice versa. These cars have put out roughly similar power output for 10 years, no matter what slight differences they have in the torque band. Granted, the 2015's improve the torque band on the WRX, but we've yet to see what the STi looks like. It's been a week since the reveal, still no reviews. That's not a good sign either if Subaru is waiting for the crowds to quiet down before they let those out. WRX reviews were out within a week of the reveal. Also, I'd like to complain for a second..I went to the Silicon Valley Auto Show, and they have the 2014 WRX Hatchback! and the 2014 Sedan on display. What is up with Subaru? No 2015 Model, and they put out there a Hatch that they don't even sell anymore...What genius came up with this?
    At least one video reviewer mentioned the day of the STi release that the road test was two weeks away and would be at Leguna Seca. I wouldn't exactly say that portends poor performance expectations.

    As far as the 2014 you saw at the show, I can understand your disappointment but to be fair it IS still the current model as 2014 just began and you can still order them. If fact that's all that is available to order right now.

    The power numbers haven't increased significantly in the last ten years and some like yourself don't like that. I get that. That's totally fair. I can't help but think again though, that if peak power is your primary motivator than Subaru was almost always a poor choice. If one values the unique qualities that the STi brings to the table than there really isn't many competitors that provide it at the price point they offer it at.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJ View Post
    At least one video r....

    The power numbers haven't increased significantly in the last ten years and some like yourself don't like that. I get that. That's totally fair. I can't help but think again though, that if peak power is your primary motivator than Subaru was almost always a poor choice. If one values the unique qualities that the STi brings to the table than there really isn't many competitors that provide it at the price point they offer it at.

    I agree it is not all about the power. I was always a big fan of AWD, and the price/performance ratio. Some strange things happened this year though, namely I decided to buy a 3rd car. With 2 AWD family cars (sienna and volvo xc70) in the mix, I don't need an all-purpose car so much as I want a fun exciting car. I've made some sacrifices in the past, namely with an S4 just to get a nice interior to go along with some power and AWD, but always felt that car was too much for what you get out of it. I'm no longer in need of AWD, so it is just simply a plus for powering out of turns now, and perhaps some better traction on the days I happen to have it out in the wet.

    I have to admit, I was ready for an STI with a DI motor. When it didn't happen, the WRX looks like a great car for its costs. But I can't help wondering that a 09-10 Boxster S or Cayman S can be hard for around 38-44K. It's only a few K more than a nicely loaded STi will be, and may be more fun, albeit with 2 doors missing. I spend way too much time thinking about cars, yet here I'm sure I'm not the only one!

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeemtn View Post
    I agree it is not all about the power. I was always a big fan of AWD, and the price/performance ratio. Some strange things happened this year though, namely I decided to buy a 3rd car. With 2 AWD family cars (sienna and volvo xc70) in the mix, I don't need an all-purpose car so much as I want a fun exciting car. I've made some sacrifices in the past, namely with an S4 just to get a nice interior to go along with some power and AWD, but always felt that car was too much for what you get out of it. I'm no longer in need of AWD, so it is just simply a plus for powering out of turns now, and perhaps some better traction on the days I happen to have it out in the wet.

    I have to admit, I was ready for an STI with a DI motor. When it didn't happen, the WRX looks like a great car for its costs. But I can't help wondering that a 09-10 Boxster S or Cayman S can be hard for around 38-44K. It's only a few K more than a nicely loaded STi will be, and may be more fun, albeit with 2 doors missing. I spend way too much time thinking about cars, yet here I'm sure I'm not the only one!
    If you're looking for a 3rd, "fun," car, I personally would definitely be looking at the Porsches or something more "pure sports car" along those lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by azeemtn View Post
    I agree it is not all about the power. I was always a big fan of AWD, and the price/performance ratio. Some strange things happened this year though, namely I decided to buy a 3rd car. With 2 AWD family cars (sienna and volvo xc70) in the mix, I don't need an all-purpose car so much as I want a fun exciting car. I've made some sacrifices in the past, namely with an S4 just to get a nice interior to go along with some power and AWD, but always felt that car was too much for what you get out of it. I'm no longer in need of AWD, so it is just simply a plus for powering out of turns now, and perhaps some better traction on the days I happen to have it out in the wet.


    I have to admit, I was ready for an STI with a DI motor. When it didn't happen, the WRX looks like a great car for its costs. But I can't help wondering that a 09-10 Boxster S or Cayman S can be hard for around 38-44K. It's only a few K more than a nicely loaded STi will be, and may be more fun, albeit with 2 doors missing. I spend way too much time thinking about cars, yet here I'm sure I'm not the only one!

    Its hard to argue with the other options you're considering. Those are really fun choices especially on nice days. I'm still anxious to see how the reviewers rate the STi. Not that the STi will be out performing a boxer S but i am expecting good things from the STi judging by the reviews I've seen of the new wrx. If the reviews don't live up to the expectations than I may reconsider.


    But Laguna Seca seems like it would be an incredible road course to drive and should tell a lot about the car.
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