2014 Subaru Forester XT... is the the next WRX motor?

[MainFrame]

ive considered a few times getting a longer cut 5th gear for my wrx...honestly, when would you miss it?

Albins will do it for you.. I think they only wanted to charge $7000 per gear last time I talked to them, lol.

[mycologist]

Cruising at 3000 rpm is fine by me. They need to cut back on how tall 2nd gear more so than adding another cruiser gear. I'd like to have the ratios of the old JDM 5sp. and then a sixth gear that was added on above them.

[mycologist]

Here is the pertinent part BTW:


"
The forced-induction mill is based on the same platform as the engine that propels the company's BRZ.

Engineers spent plenty of time tweaking the vehicle's drivetrain as well. While lower trims make use of the same 2.5-liter dual-overhead cam boxer four-cylinder engine that debuted on the 2013 model, the XT now benefits from a turbocharged, direct-injection 2.0-liter flat four. The forced-induction mill is based on the same platform as the engine that propels the company's BRZ, but engineers assure us the setup won't fit into the rear-wheel-drive coupe's engine bay. Clearly, they've never handled a reciprocating saw.

The base engine continues to deliver 170 horsepower at 5,800 rpm and 174 pound-feet of torque at 4,100 rpm, but the new beating heart behind the XT puts out 250 horses from 5,600 rpm and 258 lb-ft of torque from a foolishly low 2,000 rpm. That's a jump of 26 hp and 32 lb-ft of torque over the outgoing turbocharged 2.5-liter engine. While the base 2014 Forester gets to enjoy an all-new six-speed manual transmission, as well as a new continuously variable transmission option, the XT rides with an all-new high-torque CVT of its own. The new transmissions translate into some impressive fuel economy figures, with the base model returning 24 miles per gallon city and 32 mpg highway by Subaru estimations (the EPA has yet to officially weigh in). The XT, meanwhile, now meets the 2013 base model's numbers with 23 mpg city and 28 mpg highway, and the turbo no longer requires premium fuel. Those are impressive numbers considering the Forester comes standard with all-wheel drive."

[BombAtomic]

Here is the pertinent part BTW:


"
The forced-induction mill is based on the same platform as the engine that propels the company's BRZ.

Engineers spent plenty of time tweaking the vehicle's drivetrain as well. While lower trims make use of the same 2.5-liter dual-overhead cam boxer four-cylinder engine that debuted on the 2013 model, the XT now benefits from a turbocharged, direct-injection 2.0-liter flat four. The forced-induction mill is based on the same platform as the engine that propels the company's BRZ, but engineers assure us the setup won't fit into the rear-wheel-drive coupe's engine bay. Clearly, they've never handled a reciprocating saw.

The base engine continues to deliver 170 horsepower at 5,800 rpm and 174 pound-feet of torque at 4,100 rpm, but the new beating heart behind the XT puts out 250 horses from 5,600 rpm and 258 lb-ft of torque from a foolishly low 2,000 rpm. That's a jump of 26 hp and 32 lb-ft of torque over the outgoing turbocharged 2.5-liter engine. While the base 2014 Forester gets to enjoy an all-new six-speed manual transmission, as well as a new continuously variable transmission option, the XT rides with an all-new high-torque CVT of its own. The new transmissions translate into some impressive fuel economy figures, with the base model returning 24 miles per gallon city and 32 mpg highway by Subaru estimations (the EPA has yet to officially weigh in). The XT, meanwhile, now meets the 2013 base model's numbers with 23 mpg city and 28 mpg highway, and the turbo no longer requires premium fuel. Those are impressive numbers considering the Forester comes standard with all-wheel drive."

Cheers!

[RayfieldsWRX]

Wow, the XT no longer requires premium? That's a change. Makes you wonder how much has been left on the table for a tuner.

I'm fine with where the engine is spinning on the highway. If I could cruise at 0rpms, it still wouldn't be a quiet car at speed. I would like the shorter 2nd gear, but I work around it by revving 1st out more than most other gears, if I anticipate any need at all of acceleration coming.

[Calvinball]

I was messing around earlier due to my pet peeve of people claiming facts for the next WRX when there are none, but if we are talking speculatively, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see that engine in the next rex.

While there are lots of people who come around and say "I think they should make the next WRX 300hp and the STI 350!1!" For us power-hungry modding fools, that sounds great, but I think keeping the power levels somewhere around where they are now for factory trim is probably perfectly fine in the minds of the powers that be. I think an engine change that keeps numbers similar to where they are now but with a much better torque curve (which this sounds like it would have), a la the switch to the ej255, would not be a shocker.

Plus the bump in fuel economy, I would be pretty happy with that engine in the new WRX!

[RayfieldsWRX]

Upping the power of a given performance model is a lot more complex for the manufacturer than it might seem to the casual consumer. More powerful engines cost more to produce, and change the risk assessment for the model..(more people breaking them, and then showing back up at the dealer demanding warranty repairs) All of which translates into a more expensive car.

Also, my perception is that Subaru isn't having trouble selling the car at 265hp.

[Calvinball]

Upping the power of a given performance model is a lot more complex for the manufacturer than it might seem to the casual consumer. More powerful engines cost more to produce, and change the risk assessment for the model..(more people breaking them, and then showing back up at the dealer demanding warranty repairs) All of which translates into a more expensive car.

Also, my perception is that Subaru isn't having trouble selling the car at 265hp.

Exactly. And I think your observation that there is plenty of room for tuning since the numbers for the XT are based on non-premium fuel is important too. I would imagine they could easily get that 250 hp up to 265ish with some tuning. That wouldn't surprise me either, as a 15 hp decrease from the previous version probably isn't what the marketing people would want to work with.

[speedtown]

Also, my perception is that Subaru isn't having trouble selling the car at 265hp.

heck they didn't have problems when it was below 265! No matter what the next engine plenty of people will be willing to buy it. If people bought the 08 wrx (when extreme changes had occurred I.E hatch controversy) that show's you the loyality they have to subaru.

[mangostick]

This is what I meant by running out of gear. It is actually making me think twice about going to stage 2 because it is loud enough in 5th at 3k with just the catback.

Its called dynamat, its widely available. Or use a taller tire, also widely available.

As for no hood scoop, subaru has developed a pretty complicated ducting system to take care of the feed to the intercooler. The shape is more efficient without the scoop. Love it or hate it, it works better than the scoop.

Why hate for the cvt? Have ya driven a subaru one yet? I have, they're quite nice. And once you start tuning there's another advantage to think about. If you can work the CVT so that when deeper than 70% throttle you always stay in boost.. that's going to be a fun critter to drive.

Just a few thoughts for 2c

We all know the next WRX motor will be a turbo'd FA engine. That's been in the works for a good while now. The jdm spec legacy has already been using it. As for power, I dont think they'll work much of an increase if any at all. Especially since they're stepping back to a 2L mill. Going smaller and making the same power is a feat in itself let alone pushing an increase. I'll make a prediction that this one will be direct injected though.. that I think we can count on.

[MainFrame]

Cruising at 3000 rpm is fine by me. They need to cut back on how tall 2nd gear more so than adding another cruiser gear. I'd like to have the ratios of the old JDM 5sp. and then a sixth gear that was added on above them.

That's exactly what I was thinking. That is the gear set I have in my car (JDM STi 5mt) and I feel that 1-3 are perfect.. if it were possible to add a 6th (probably could if I did away with R), I would want 4th and 5th a little shorter, then 6th long enough to be around 2500rpm @ 75mph.


The "high speed" six speed gear set looks pretty promising to me, but I would like it if 1-4 were a little longer..

[zax]

This thread hurts my brain.

"ZOMG ONLY 250HP?!?!"

Get over it.

[Rambo]

Why hate for the cvt? Have ya driven a subaru one yet? I have, they're quite nice. And once you start tuning there's another advantage to think about. If you can work the CVT so that when deeper than 70% throttle you always stay in boost.. that's going to be a fun critter to drive.

Since the CVT is electronically controllable, I wonder if this will open up transmission tuning to the aftermarket? I've only worked with physical CVT tuning (pulley ramps, springs, and flywheel weights), but with the selectable ratios I'm wondering if an ECU tune could theorhetically modify the manual "shift" points, or change the normal shift out parameters. That would be pretty neat.

This thread hurts my brain.

"ZOMG ONLY 250HP?!?!"

Get over it.

Well, assume hypothetically that this engine is directly ported over as is to the WRX (again, I seriously doubt it, but bear with me). Subaru set the precedent of 265hp in their current cars, so I think many buyers would be put off by a drop in power for later models. Whether or not that disappointment would be unfounded is beside the point.

I honestly don't care though. I'm so sick of all the speculation and rumors; it's like 2008 all over again. Subaru will release the car when they're good and ready. Until that point, I can wait. It's just a car, people. I haven't seen this much rumormill material since the iPhone...

[Calvinball]

Why hate for the cvt? Have ya driven a subaru one yet? I have, they're quite nice. And once you start tuning there's another advantage to think about. If you can work the CVT so that when deeper than 70% throttle you always stay in boost.. that's going to be a fun critter to drive.

I agree, I had a '13 impreza with the CVT as a loaner, I thought that it was actually pretty good. Putting it into the "flappy paddle fake manual" mode actually felt better to me than any traditional auto I've tried one of those systems on. I'm with you too on the intrigue level of a CVT being able to keep a car in the meat of the powerband. Imagine, once you get past the lag (and I think it mentioned that the torque is available at 2k rpms?) you are just in boost for as long as you want to accelerate. It certainly would be different, but could be lots of fun.

Well, assume hypothetically that this engine is directly ported over as is to the WRX (again, I seriously doubt it, but bear with me). Subaru set the precedent of 265hp in their current cars, so I think many buyers would be put off by a drop in power for later models. Whether or not that disappointment would be unfounded is beside the point.

Exactly. Horsepower numbers are what is used in marketing. You almost never see ads talking about torque (except the occasional truck ad) and definitely not area under the curve. You do always see people, even on internet forums which are only a portion of the car buying population, who are obsessed with peak HP ratings. Think of all the arguments over the BRZ.

I honestly don't care though. I'm so sick of all the speculation and rumors; it's like 2008 all over again. Subaru will release the car when they're good and ready. Until that point, I can wait. It's just a car, people. I haven't seen this much rumormill material since the iPhone...

Ditto, and it really gets me when people claim the rumors as fact. As far as I'm aware, there are no actual facts out there yet.

[11blackSTi]

Fact - there will be a new WRX/STI

Fact - there will be a lot of people that like it, and a lot of people that will have plenty of complaints about it

Also, I am going to still be driving my current car for a long time, regardless of what the new gen looks like/has for an engine