The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! - Page 55
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This is a discussion on The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! within the New Cars/Prototypes Forums forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by shamankjm Am I correct in thinking that subaru finally put properly bolstered seats in one of their ...

  1. #811
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    Quote Originally Posted by shamankjm View Post
    Am I correct in thinking that subaru finally put properly bolstered seats in one of their cars with the advent of the BRZ? If so, I wonder if we will be able to retro-fit them into our rexxes.

    sent from my kindle conflagration
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    The question is not pointless and I'm not comparing anything to the wrx. I'm simply asking would any of you who state " hp isn't everything" and "A great handling car is just as fun as fast car " would've put your money where your mouth is and dropped 27k on a relatively slow car that handled great, instead of buying a car that is relatively quick and handles well enough ?
    HP isn't everything. It never is. People who think otherwise have a very straight lined mentality. I'd put you up against any professional driver in a BRZ on any road course.

    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    I already have put my money where my mouth is, twice; see response above:

    My daily driver has 100 HP less than my Impreza and is slower in every measurable way. It's also a far better car despite being RWD. If that meets the criteria for putting one's money where one's mouth is, I've bought two such cars but only one Impreza.

    Those two small RWD cars are slower than a turbo Impreza, have less power than a turbo Impreza, have less room than a turbo Impreza, but are are better cars than the turbo Impreza because they get dynamics right, whereas no Subaru of which I am aware has managed to do so in the same manner.

    Am I on the right track towards answering your question or are we talking across purposes though?
    SD, always unbiased as per usual...

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    Im just saying to the vast majority, speed is more fun than cornering ability. If you argue otherwise, would you actually put your money where your mouth is? Or are you just backing this car because it's a Subaru?
    100%. If I had the money and wasn't involved in other projects currently, I'd probably own a BRZ. I currently own several Subarus, none of which cornered spectacular from the factory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Soobvirgin View Post
    I think perhaps it depends where you live and what kinds of roads you get to drive on, to a large extent. If you live somewhere where there aren't many twisty roads around you, or you never encounter them on your daily commute, then I can see how cornering ability would be low on the list of priorities when choosing a car.

    Personally, I don't think there's anything challenging or rewarding in driving fast in a straight line. Anyone can do that. But the feeling of taking a corner on the racing line, pushing the limit of grip and balancing understeer/oversteer with the throttle leaves me, personally, feeling pretty satisfied. A great handling car (weight has a lot to do with it) enables you to enter, drive through and exit a corner with more speed, so sheer power becomes less important. It's also harder for the cops to give you a ticket for taking a corner too quickly - that's pretty subjective. Not like a radar gun.

    However, about a month ago, I chose to buy a WRX instead of the BRZ. In the months leading up to my purchase, I was very excited about the BRZ and thought that might be what I ended up with. As more specs became available, I realized, sadly, that it just wasn't going to have a big enough trunk for my needs. The advantage over the WRX of better promised MPG also didn't seem likely when I saw the small torque figure. I'd guess you'd always have to be revving the engine to get any go from it.

    But cornering ability is more important to me than sheer power, otherwise I'd just have bought a Mustang.
    Well put. I don't think the BRZ is a very practical car. It's a sporty little car that would be great for auto-x and track days. I think this is how Subaru intended to market it to it's customers. I don't think that people seem to understand that the BRZ was not manufactured to compete in the power department.

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    Some of the most engaging cars I've ever driven had less than 100 HP; in fact one particular car had roughly 70 HP on a good day and it was absolutely brilliant. To be fair, the BRZ cannot be like that; however it can be a very fun sporting car for the weekender etc.. They need to fix the reverse lamps far more than they need to add power or worry about drag racing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    SD, always unbiased as per usual....
    Didn't see the quote previously, sorry. Hi Drews, nice to talk to you! SD.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 06-28-2012 at 08:40 PM.
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    Sheesh Rex, didn't I tell ya that a lot of the backlash was from trying to compare the BRZ to the WRX when they are totally different cars?

    Then you go and ask a question where you literally try to make the BRZ even more of a direct competitor to the WRX by attributing it's driving characteristics to a pretend car that is otherwise the same as the WRX.

    Ah well, I guess we are all doomed to never understand each others' position.

    To answer your question though, yes. When I was last shopping for a car and didn't need more than 2 doors and no backseat, I bought a RSX over the WRX of the time. 65 less hp, 1 billion less torque, and no where near the same straight line acceleration. (Edit: Whoops! Not enough coffee, the WRX of the same year only had 30 more hp and 1 million more torque, but same principles apply) But the car fit my purposes, was lighter, and felt much more balanced weight-wise. Can my WRX go around a turn faster? I believe so, but it doesn't feel the same and isn't as easy.

    And before anyone even says, I'm in no way trying to say the RSX was anywhere as good at handling as the BRZ supposedly is. Just saying that, when my life circumstances allowed, I did choose the underpowered smaller car because of how it felt to drive.
    Last edited by Calvinball; 06-29-2012 at 06:13 AM. Reason: Not awaked yet, messed up
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex_Harrison View Post
    Im just saying to the vast majority, speed is more fun than cornering ability. If you argue otherwise, would you actually put your money where your mouth is? Or are you just backing this car because it's a Subaru?
    Wow.
    Yes, for guys in their 20's, on this forum, speed is king. I'd be careful trying to speak for the other 90% of the planet. It always gets me in trouble.

    Yes, I'd put my money where my mouth is. My next purchase will be more about handling than raw power.

    No. The regulars on this forum are actually pretty honest about the limitations of Subaru. We get a fresh dose of fanboi n00bs every year, and they're always shocked at how quick the people here are to point out the bad paint, low tech, perceived poor engineering choices, etc.


    This horse has been beat to death. It's obvious that you aren't the target demographic for the car. Why not just accept that other people have other tastes, and move on with your life? It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same stuff, don't you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same stuff, don't you think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    It would be a pretty boring world if we all liked the same stuff, don't you think?
    Or a utopia wher everyone got along.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Drews View Post
    Or a utopia wher everyone got along.
    They tried that...a perfect world, entire crops were lost.
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    Quote Originally Posted by spirited09wrx View Post
    They tried that...a perfect world, entire crops were lost.
    "The dead are liquified and fed to the living."
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    I already have put my money where my mouth is, twice; see response above:

    My daily driver has 100 HP less than my Impreza and is slower in every measurable way. It's also a far better car despite being RWD. If that meets the criteria for putting one's money where one's mouth is, I've bought two such cars but only one Impreza.

    Those two small RWD cars are slower than a turbo Impreza, have less power than a turbo Impreza, have less room than a turbo Impreza, but are are better cars than the turbo Impreza because they get dynamics right, whereas no Subaru of which I am aware has managed to do so in the same manner.

    Am I on the right track towards answering your question or are we talking across purposes though?
    Anyone else think this is Spiros's version of being angry or short-tempered finally?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Anyone else think this is Spiros's version of being angry or short-tempered finally?
    Fear teh Spiros.

    We should start a bumper sticker craze, with that saying on it. Universal "wtf?"s.
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  13. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Anyone else think this is Spiros's version of being angry or short-tempered finally?
    The reply did seem to contain some subdued aggression.
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  14. #823
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Ouch, sorry to Rex_Harrison and to all then, I did not actually intend to come across as aggressive. RH asked if someone, and I took that to be anyone reading, had put their money where their mouth is and bought a car as described (low power, good handling etc.). I realised I'd done so twice (probably more than twice, but twice with reasonable recent examples anyway) so I responded. Then I didn't know if that was the point of the question (now I don't know if the question was even directed at me or nonspecific readers, but that's another story).

    Anyway, sorry, just talking.
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  15. #824
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Ouch, sorry to Rex_Harrison and to all then, I did not actually intend to come across as aggressive. RH asked if someone, and I took that to be anyone reading, had put their money where their mouth is and bought a car as described (low power, good handling etc.). I realised I'd done so twice (probably more than twice, but twice with reasonable recent examples anyway) so I responded. Then I didn't know if that was the point of the question (now I don't know if the question was even directed at me or nonspecific readers, but that's another story).

    Anyway, sorry, just talking.
    Its ok...let it out. We're here for you!

    I for one, thought it was an excellent response, with no apologies to Rex_Harrison or anyone else, needed.
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    Well I, for one, was highly offended. In penance, I think that Spiros will need to make an appearance at CF2013, share a beer around the campfire, and recite the Cretin's mantra.



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