The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! - Page 31
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This is a discussion on The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! within the New Cars/Prototypes Forums forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by mycologist I narrowed it down some for you, but you still have one or two considerations for ...

  1. #451
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    I narrowed it down some for you, but you still have one or two considerations for the time being.

    Nice. And somewhat true...I still peruse Autotrader for the used 911's in my area on a weekly basis.

    It will probably have to wait until my older kid is driving, so I won't be carting both of them around so much.
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    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Registered User MagnumXL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    The very bottom line is that this car CANNOT be compared to a wrx or sti.. They are not nearly the same in any way. It was not ever intended to compete or sell in those classes.
    Yeah, because one is a semi-truck and one is a car?

    Geeze, I should never have looked at Mustangs and Challengers before buying my current WRX. They're just too damn different to compare in ANY way.

    You know, some of us don't care if it's 2-door or 4-door and in the summer whether it's AWD or RWD. They have their uses, but that doesn't mean you CAN'T compare them. It's all in the eye of the driver and his needs and desires/needs for a given car. And frankly, until I see some direct track numbers of WRX Vs. BRZ on a couple of different style tracks with the same driver (i.e. drivers are a FAR bigger variable than the cars in many cases) for both times, I wouldn't make any given claims so darn lightly. The BRZ may handle better, but it's got less power. Which car someone (who doesn't care about the back seat, etc. like me) wants may depend entirely on their driving habits, where they drive (winter is a factor if you want to go fast in the snow) and how they intend to use the car (is for daily driving, tracking or both?) How the car looks usually plays a factor in most people's minds as well (often the first thing, sadly). You can't tell someone they cannot compare something. I've seen people compare cars and certain fast trucks. Hey, who am I to tell them they CAN'T?

    IT WILL NEVER BE AWD
    SO?

    IT WILL NEVER HAVE A STI VERSION (though may end up force fed.. that we shall see in time)
    ^ this is due to subaru leading the wrx and sti off to be their own models.. vs stages of the "impreza" model that they have previously been.
    You do know that STI is not a car model, right? It's a division of Subaru known as "Subaru Tecnica International" (STI). They specialize in performance parts and modifications to the standard models. This is why you can buy STI parts (like a 5-speed gear shift knob which doesn't fit the current STI models) for other Subaru models. The WRX is the only car to receive an STI badge so Subaru may not want to use the badge on a BRZ because it might create name-confusion. But it's not because it's out of place. If anything, STI should be used on any souped up version of a given car model by then (i.e. if they made a souped up Legacy, it should be a Legacy STI).

    And if any of you blokes think a wrx is NOT an economy car.. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.. wake up wouldya? wtf do you think the impreza is?? .. last I checked the platform the wrx is based from IS an impreza. There's a reason its slim on creature comforts and believe me its not in the name of performance.
    I suppose it depends on what your definition of "economy" is and at what point in the process of upgrades is it no longer "economy"? Sharing a common frame is hardly an indicator or a car's potential, after all.

    Frankly, the current WRX has too many creature comforts, IMO (about 3x more than my '04 WRX). Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of something that it's missing other than something I wish it WAS missing (i.e. rattles). But should a true sports car care about rattles? No, it's a luxury thing, not a "sports" thing.

    Lastly and I cant describe it fully in words but anyone who has driven a truely sports intended vehicle... not a "sporty" vehicle but an actual sports car (aka ferrari, lotus, porsche etc) especially the old ones that weren't very fast will tell you that there is so much more to a car than literal straight line performance. I'll just leave it at that because those who know.. know.. and are very excited about this car.
    Yeah, the WRX drives like total crap. WTF did they ever enter it into Rally races? WTF were they thinking? A world championship rally car based on a lowly Impreza? WTF?! And that guy winning races with a souped up Ford Fiesta? WTF!? Doesn't he know that car is an econo-box with poor handling? WTF was he thinking winning races with it???

    Honestly, I don't know WTF some of you are getting SO upset about people comparing the BRZ to the WRX. Most of us either don't want or can't afford to buy two "sporty" cars. And yes, they're both just "sporty". A true sports car is measured by its performance in its own era, not the slower cars of yesteryear. A "sports car" is meant to be high performance and the BRZ might have been considered that in 1982, but not in 2012. It's a SCION for goodness sake! It's a TC with RWD (and slower to 60 for that matter). It's no more a sports car than the WRX is unless a Scion IQ also is in your book (it can handle nimbly and turn on a dime, but it's SLOW).

    And no, a WRX is not a sports car. It's not high performance either, but it can be made so with upgrades to the existing engine. Most "sports cars" are 2-door, but this is not a true prerequisite (just a historical one) just as spartan is not either (there's some pretty luxurious "sports cars" out there today including most Porsches). I've never seen RWD to be a "requirement" in the definition either. Traditionally, FWD does not handle well and AWD added too much weight but neither of these are the limitations today that they were 20+ years ago. The number of doors is irrelevant to performance. Either car could be made into a sports car (the Rally WRX certainly is), but stock, they both fall short.

    OTOH, the definition of a "sports car" is hardly an item with 100% agreement. (e.g. see Definition of a Sports Car )

    Regardless, it's nothing to get upset about. Either you want one or you don't. I might want one that had more power (I still wouldn't want to drive it in the winter, though, which means I'd have to have another car for winter driving and it likely wouldn't be much of a fun car). Otherwise, I'm happy with what I've got for now, at least, which is "sporty" driving in every season with good handling and good performance and decent looks. To me, the BRZ is a down-grade in performance and would suck in the winter. The Mustang V6 was similar in performance (GT greater), but still sucked in the winter. I got my WRX because I wanted to have fun in the snow too (sadly very little of it this year).
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  5. #454
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnumXL View Post
    Yeah, because one is a semi-truck and one is a car?
    I like understeer but truth be told the Impreza is a bit of a van at times.

    Geeze, I should never have looked at Mustangs and Challengers before buying my current WRX. They're just too damn different to compare in ANY way.
    Good point.

    You know... {SNIP}
    I do. I know. Some good points made. Deleted the quote to save space.

    You do know that STI is not a car model, right?
    It is a car model.

    It's a division of Subaru known as "Subaru Tecnica International" (STI).
    Sure, that too; but unlike, say, Autodelta or Abarth, they don't actually compete on the world stage; the cars that competed in the WRC used WRX chassis codes and were assembled in UK not JP. The GrN cars were JP sourced I think, but were intended for privateers and weekenders.

    They specialize in performance parts and modifications to the standard models.
    True. They also did homologate some parts, like all the GrN stuff for example.

    The WRX is the only car to receive an STI badge
    Didn't the Forester also get it? Anyway, I don't disagree with your points.

    Frankly, the current WRX has too many creature comforts, IMO (about 3x more than my '04 WRX).
    Here we go different ways. The ideal car is comfortable as a living room, faster than an F1, more economical than a bicycle, and quieter than a bank vault. The farther from those marks, the farther from ideal. The Impreza is not ideal...

    WTF did they ever enter it into Rally races?
    Because they made sure the rules allowed them to run a car with no relationship beyond the superficial to the road cars. Look at engine placement for example. It makes a huge difference in dynamics and in the WRC version, it's corrected compared to the road car. Contrast the early GrA (non-WRC; even WRC cars are classified as GrA/8 but I'm talking before the WRC class evolved). It was good mostly for comedic relief.

    WTF were they thinking?
    Probably "the best team in history, Lancia, are now leaving the series so we might, just might have a shot and actually winning."

    A world championship rally car based on a lowly Impreza? WTF?!
    Again, the chassis and driveline of the WRC spec cars have no relationship to the Impreza. The suspension mount points were preserved due to regulations but every/any other mount point that was free was altered.

    And that guy winning races with a souped up Ford Fiesta? WTF!?
    This is an even worse example for your argument, since the later cars are even more detached from road cars than the earlier cars like the Impreza.

    WTF was he thinking winning races with it???
    I don't think this is relevant but don't take my word for it; FIA publish the sporting regulations and it's no picnic but they're out there. We're talking silhouettes at this point, not related cars.

    Honestly, I don't know WTF some of you are getting SO upset about people comparing the BRZ to the WRX.
    It's a SCION for goodness sake!
    Here I lost track though -- isn't this in contrast to your own (albeit IMO not solidly founded) example of the Fiesta above? It might just be me though, it's been a long day.

    Regardless, it's nothing to get upset about. Either you want one or you don't.
    Whereas this, I can understand, tired or not. Agree.
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  6. #455
    Registered User GarrettKoonsman's Avatar
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    I'VE HAD ENOUGH!!!!!! Im about to go all angry badger on this thread if people don't limit their posts to 100 words
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    The Fruit mangostick's Avatar
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    pm sent.. arguing in public does none of us any good.
    Last edited by mycologist; 04-10-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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  9. #458
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that winning an argument like this is pretty pointless, and certainly not worth getting frustrated about or making derogatory comments. It really boils down to personal preferences and semantics anyways. I think even Spiros and I differ a little. I think a sports car should be loud and a little smelly.

    I will say that old "slow" sports cars really are not eclipsed by something like this BRZ even if it gets its turbo.
    Last edited by mycologist; 04-10-2012 at 08:19 PM.
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  10. #459
    Moderator rage-wrx's Avatar
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    This is a pointless argument about a car no one has driven & very few of us have set eyes on & even fewer of us will ever own.
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    It is all pointless but look at how involving it is. If nothing else the car has caused discussion and controversy. It'd be a real shame if we were to be disappointed in person, like it or not at this point. Lots of thought put into something we've never seen. I'm a bit surprised by that in and of itself.
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    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnumXL View Post
    Honestly, I don't know WTF some of you are getting SO upset about people comparing the BRZ to the WRX.
    And after writing War and Peace about it, your assertion is that you're not the most upset person in the thread? Everyone else here looks rather conversational, to me...but if anyone is upset, simply take some advice from the Dogg: "If the ride is more fly, then you must buy."

    Quote Originally Posted by rage-wrx View Post
    This is a pointless argument about a car no one has driven & very few of us have set eyes on & even fewer of us will ever own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    the Dogg: "If the ride is more fly, then you must buy."
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  16. #465
    Moderator rage-wrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    "If the ride is more fly, then you must buy."
    That's what I hear
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