The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! - Page 30
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This is a discussion on The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! within the New Cars/Prototypes Forums forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Welp, like I said. Agree to disagree....

  1. #436
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Welp, like I said. Agree to disagree.
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  3. #437
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    I agree the two are simply not for the same market segment, and are not comparable.

    There are so many factors that go into a fun driving experience. How low you sit, how far back, how the car is balanced, which wheels are driving, do you prefer acceleration G's or lateral G's etc. etc. Take a more extreme comparison and consider a very heavy but very fast saloon AWD, vs. a go-cart RWD that is slow. Some may prefer straight acceleration and top speed, but in the go cart you are going to feel like you are going very fast because you are so low, and the lateral G's and more importantly how the vehicle transitions with the weight difference, is going to be totally different. What it does when you hit the gas will also be totally different.

    Of course if you pep the go cart up, it will be able to out accelerate the car, and will be more "fun" compared to the slow go cart (only the latter being a fair comparison that takes all the other stuff into account).

    All things considered, and comparing things that should not be in keeping with the theme here, my 280z would have been in the ballpark of the BRZ probably for acceleration, but was overall a more stimulating driving experience than my WRX. It did not go as fast as my WRX. My WRX could not be made to handle like the Z did. Even a WRX with enough mods to corner as fast would do so in a very different way, with a very different feel. With the motor too far forward in the WRX it will never have exceptional dynamics, even without considering how AWD vs RWD drives.
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  4. #438
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    ^This.

    I guess the right way to view the market segment thing is that they aren't comparable for "people who weigh in factors besides brand name, magazine 0-60 times, and OMGturbo"...and perhaps there are more people outside that set than I am willing to admit.

    Ray's "next car" considerations list looks like this: (no particular order)

    • Driving Feel (balance, steering feedback, throttle response, tossability, etc.)
    • Curb weight (Over 3200'ish lbs. starts to feel porky to me...less is even better)
    • True manual transmission. The only substitute for this is a true manual transmission.
    • A fun amount of engine power. (Could be norm. aspirated if it's the right engine)
    • A dash that doesn't induce a headache, and services my needs.
    • A usable interior, based on my current family man needs.
    • Price
    • Aesthetics, to some degree. (hard to pin this one down)


    The one about a usable interior is actually quite important to me. If I wreck my wagon tomorrow, and find myself looking for a new car to replace it, the BRZ doesn't make the list. I have to haul 3 and 4 kids around on occasion, and sometimes I'll take camping gear somewhere.

    The first one is a biggie in favor of the SubieToy...I'll bet the throttle response of the non-turbo engine beats all of our cars.
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  5. #439
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    • Doesn't induce a headache, and services my needs.
    • A usable interior, based on my current family man needs.
    • Price
    • Aesthetics, to some degree. (hard to pin this one down)

    You are still talking about a car, right?
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  6. #440
    Administrator RayfieldsWRX's Avatar
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    --Ray
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  7. #441
    The Fruit mangostick's Avatar
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    The very bottom line is that this car CANNOT be compared to a wrx or sti.. They are not nearly the same in any way. It was not ever intended to compete or sell in those classes.

    IT WILL NEVER BE AWD

    IT WILL NEVER HAVE A STI VERSION (though may end up force fed.. that we shall see in time)
    ^ this is due to subaru leading the wrx and sti off to be their own models.. vs stages of the "impreza" model that they have previously been.

    And if any of you blokes think a wrx is NOT an economy car.. HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA.. wake up wouldya? wtf do you think the impreza is?? .. last I checked the platform the wrx is based from IS an impreza. There's a reason its slim on creature comforts and believe me its not in the name of performance.

    Lastly and I cant describe it fully in words but anyone who has driven a truely sports intended vehicle... not a "sporty" vehicle but an actual sports car (aka ferrari, lotus, porsche etc) especially the old ones that weren't very fast will tell you that there is so much more to a car than literal straight line performance. I'll just leave it at that because those who know.. know.. and are very excited about this car.



    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    Forgot about the speed miata, although they don't make it anymore. I was making a point with the current Mazda lineup; in my mind comparing the BRZ to the WRX makes as much (or as little) sense as comparing the Mazdaspeed 3 to the Miata.
    ^ + billion. Well said. It is literally the same as comparing those two cars.
    Last edited by mangostick; 04-10-2012 at 08:36 AM. Reason: added quote
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  8. #442
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Rambo's Avatar
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    ^Agreed, I drove a 1969 Porsche 912 once which peaked at 90hp when new. Believe me, the last thing that needed was more hp. Taught handling, light weight, and a low slung body amplified the sense of speed, and man was it a blast to drive. Hard.

    The Miata nailed this formula in 1989, and has been largely unchallenged in it's class since then. Here's hoping the BRZ carves a good name for itself. I want Subaru to see this a viable, long-standing product line, and not just a fun project that peters out in a few years.
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  9. #443
    The Fruit mangostick's Avatar
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    ^ I was just thinking that the miata needs some friendly (and not so friendly ) competition. If subaru and toyota pull this car of correctly it may very well open up some interesting possibilities of different race classes/series.. hell the miata is the 2nd most tracked production car next to the porsche 911. If Subaru/Yota can reach or even get close to reaching that status.. that would be pretty cool.
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  10. #444
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    The Miata is hard to beat. Toyota had a better car for years but the Miata goes on while Toyota are now stuck trying to sell a car powered by Subaru for the price of an Impreza. If the new car is 1/2 as successful as the Miata it will be historic.
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  11. #445
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    It's already having an impact as though it has carved out a name for itself. I recently read an article about one of the Nissan bigwigs stating that they are considering downsizing the next gen Z car, or branching another car off, that would be a more direct competitor to the frs/brz.

    Now, the Nissan guy doesn't specifically say that, but I think I agree with the autoblog writer here.

    Nissan renews talk of sub-370Z sports car to take on Subaru BRZ
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  12. #446
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    ^This.

    I guess the right way to view the market segment thing is that they aren't comparable for "people who weigh in factors besides brand name, magazine 0-60 times, and OMGturbo"...and perhaps there are more people outside that set than I am willing to admit.

    Ray's "next car" considerations list looks like this: (no particular order)

    • Porsche 911
    • Porsche 911
    • Porsche 911
    • Porsche 911
    • Porsche 911
    • A usable interior, based on my current family man needs.
    • Price?
    • Porsche 911

    I narrowed it down some for you, but you still have one or two considerations for the time being.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
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  13. #447
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    I narrowed it down some for you, but you still have one or two considerations for the time being.


    Who are you...Richard Hammond??
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  14. #448
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post


    Who are you...Richard Hammond??
    Some say he is the mushroom moderator, others say he has a special appreciation for Ray's GIF magic. All we know is: he's called Mycologist!
    Isaac -- 2003 WRX sedan Stg II - Gave its life for mine 6/2013.
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  15. #449
    and the Funky Bunch Calvinball's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rambo View Post
    Some say he is the mushroom moderator, others say he has a special appreciation for Ray's GIF magic. All we know is: he's called Mycologist!
    - Will
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    "Isn't it amazing how smart you feel when you just aren't being stupid?"

  16. #450
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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