The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! - Page 17
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This is a discussion on The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief! within the New Cars/Prototypes Forums forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by CopperTop Note the title: Turbo version of BRZ Engine. Doesn't mean it will fit in or be ...

  1. #241
    Registered User 2.0Rs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
    Note the title: Turbo version of BRZ Engine. Doesn't mean it will fit in or be used in the BRZ. Just that the FA engine is going to be the base for the new 2.0L Turbo engines. It may just be in the WRX/STi not the BRZ sets. Also the whole confirmed supercharger for the FT-86 is crap from what I have seen. The original quote I saw was a Toyota enginer when asked about turbocharging the engine said they would use a supercharger in this sort of application or some such. Not that they were going to make one for the 86/FRS.
    Holy doom dispenser. I believe your views are horribly wrong. Once the trd supercharged version comes out and subaru releases the turbo version I'll come back and quote you. Most likely you won't respond. lol. If you've ever learned anything about subaru it's that they run the same engines in their cars. As their technology changed they phased in the new versions. Once the turbo motor comes out (and it will) they will have the option whether it's just in the sti version of the brz or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2.0Rs View Post
    Holy doom dispenser. I believe your views are horribly wrong. Once the trd supercharged version comes out and subaru releases the turbo version I'll come back and quote you. Most likely you won't respond. lol. If you've ever learned anything about subaru it's that they run the same engines in their cars. As their technology changed they phased in the new versions. Once the turbo motor comes out (and it will) they will have the option whether it's just in the sti version of the brz or not.
    Please read what I wrote. I didn't say it wouldn't be in a BRZ STi. All I said is the article actually is stating what everyone already knows, that the FB/FA engine will be used to make the next generation 2.0 Turbo motor.

    The speculation about a supercharger is just that, when a reporter asked a toyota engineer about turbocharging the FB/FA they said they would prefer to use a Supercharger for that application. He never said they were working on one or that there would be a model or option for one. All he said is that they would use a supercharger not a turbocharger for that motor.

    The level of crazy speculation all because everyone is so numbers crazy is driving me a bit nuts. Just because a car is a NA 200 hp motor everyone on here is screaming for a Turbo. The thing is nobody has even sat in or played with the current car. I mean yes more power is always nice, but it isn't always necessary. Everyone is always just jumping on any news that could remotely mean a 300 hp motor for the BRZ. At the current posted weights that would get you in the power/weight range of the Mustang GT. The thing about that is the BRZ doesn't seem to have been designed for drag racing.

    That being said would I jump all over a more powerful version, of course I would. I am a male in my 20's I always want more ways to get myself in trouble.

  4. #243
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    We're on a forum dedicated to turbo'd cars. Why wouldn't we want a turbo in it?

    With that being said though, great post above.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    We're on a forum dedicated to turbo'd cars. Why wouldn't we want a turbo in it?

    With that being said though, great post above.
    Pretty sure, although owning multiple Turbo'd cars, SD_GR will jump in here to say that NA > Turbo
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    NA > Turbo


    All other factors equal.. this is very true. 200hp n/a motor will trounce a 200hp turbo engine all day long. Better response, better fuel economy.. lighter (less componentry) less complicated (less componentry) ..

    The only time turbo engines aren't slammed by equal hp N/A engines is when it comes to personal preference for power delivery. I prefer right effin now.. but there are some that actually enjoy the jekyl/hyde nature of a high power turbo mill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    200hp n/a motor will trounce a 200hp turbo engine all day long.
    Not necessarily true. Generally speaking, a 200hp 2.0L turbo will have a much better torque spread than a 200 hp 2.0L high-revving NA mill. That's better performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    Better response
    Generally true. But modern DI, high-compression turbo mills with twin-scroll setups and variable valve timing have nearly instantaneous response.


    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    better fuel economy
    Theoretically, a turbo mill has a higher volumetric efficiency than its NA counterpart. Match a modern tech (again, DI and variable valve timing with twin-scroll) turbo mill with a NA mill, and you'll see better fuel economy per hp from the turbo mill. Subaru just uses ancient tech.


    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    lighter (less componentry)
    True. However, a turbo motor puts out similar power numbers to NA cars with 1-4 more cylinders. Stretching the block and heads accommodate those extra pistons adds weight.


    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    less complicated (less componentry)
    I really can't dispute this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
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  12. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    It's like you're right outside the window.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangostick View Post
    The only time turbo engines aren't slammed by equal hp N/A engines is when it comes to personal preference for power delivery. I prefer right effin now.. but there are some that actually enjoy the jekyl/hyde nature of a high power turbo mill.
    I am one of these people...the 350z I had was just boring with its near perfectly linear power "curve"

    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Generally true. But modern DI, high-compression turbo mills with twin-scroll setups and variable valve timing have nearly instantaneous response.
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  14. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Not necessarily true. Generally speaking, a 200hp 2.0L turbo will have a much better torque spread than a 200 hp 2.0L high-revving NA mill. That's better performance.


    Generally true. But modern DI, high-compression turbo mills with twin-scroll setups and variable valve timing have nearly instantaneous response.



    Theoretically, a turbo mill has a higher volumetric efficiency than its NA counterpart. Match a modern tech (again, DI and variable valve timing with twin-scroll) turbo mill with a NA mill, and you'll see better fuel economy per hp from the turbo mill. Subaru just uses ancient tech.



    True. However, a turbo motor puts out similar power numbers to NA cars with 1-4 more cylinders. Stretching the block and heads accommodate those extra pistons adds weight.



    I really can't dispute this.
    I wont dispute any of that.. given current technology everything you've stated is true. (and I love it because I think everything should have a snail bolted to it) BUT.. how often are mfr's really using the full extent of technology available? .. cost issues suck.. and often leave us (the consumer) with a compromise.

    like I said, "all things being equal" .. we all know they rarely if ever are.

    As for power curve, I want it now but I want it to progressively get angrier. N/A comes on right away but as you mention Mikey.. falls short as everything equalizes. Where I love turbo engines is that they keep on getting stronger esp with manual controllers and no boost taper.

    It really is a tough draw.. and all depends on driveline matching too.
    Last edited by mangostick; 12-09-2011 at 10:56 AM.
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  15. #254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    BMW *35i engines...
    From what I'm seeing, the Ford Ecoboost motor is looking to be one of the best T/C motors out there.
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  16. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperTop View Post
    Please read what I wrote. I didn't say it wouldn't be in a BRZ STi. All I said is the article actually is stating what everyone already knows, that the FB/FA engine will be used to make the next generation 2.0 Turbo motor.

    The speculation about a supercharger is just that, when a reporter asked a toyota engineer about turbocharging the FB/FA they said they would prefer to use a Supercharger for that application. He never said they were working on one or that there would be a model or option for one. All he said is that they would use a supercharger not a turbocharger for that motor.

    The level of crazy speculation all because everyone is so numbers crazy is driving me a bit nuts. Just because a car is a NA 200 hp motor everyone on here is screaming for a Turbo. The thing is nobody has even sat in or played with the current car. I mean yes more power is always nice, but it isn't always necessary. Everyone is always just jumping on any news that could remotely mean a 300 hp motor for the BRZ. At the current posted weights that would get you in the power/weight range of the Mustang GT. The thing about that is the BRZ doesn't seem to have been designed for drag racing.

    That being said would I jump all over a more powerful version, of course I would. I am a male in my 20's I always want more ways to get myself in trouble.
    Toyota already released that trd is working on a supercharger set up and have had some great response aprox 50hp.

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