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The BIG BRZ Bickering Brief!

91K views 1K replies 97 participants last post by  joesubaru7 
#1 ·
Awesome Scion FR-S coverage:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1163


Gotta be over 100+ photos and videos there so enjoy.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm actually a fan of this Scion. I've hated all Scion cars and the brand's image up until now, but this could definitely change my mind *possibly*. That's if it comes with the performance to back up that exotics look.

Now, will they be calling the car the Toyota FR-S in other markets where there is no Scion?
 
#367 ·
I still think everyone should reserve judgement on the power untill they've driven one. My father in law's 91 Miata barely put 94 hp to the ground, but I never felt like I needed more power. I could still scare myself silly in that car. Stock Miatas ran circles around my WRX at the AutoX track.
 
#368 ·
Of all the cars in that price range in the past twenty years, very few could stand up to the Miata:
MR2
Clio
106

The S2000 is not relevant due to cost. Vans and trucks are no more relevant than trains, that can also be quicker in a straight line.

Considering the list above though I fully agree with you and know exactly what you mean.
 
#369 ·
Really? The 106? I drove one in Europe once, and I didn't think it was much to shout about. I'll grant you the Clio and MR2 though. As far as ownership goes, the MR2 is a pain to work on. I always loved how the Gen 1 Miata engine had tons of space in the engine bay, and everything was so easy to reach and work on. Newer models have lost that, sadly.
 
#370 · (Edited)
Really? The 106?
The 106 Rallye had better steering than a Porsche 944, was more nimble than a Fiat Punto GT, and could stop almost as well as the former and better than the latter. Brilliant car. It's only fault was that it wasn't made in Japan but in France, and as prices dropped on "well" used examples more and more kids bought them and then bought the farm. 120HP is more than enough to make widows.

Contrast the Corolla "AE86" (and I use those initials with some disgust due to the horrific Japanese cartoon and drifting "scene" that has developed). Getting past the stigma associated with the Corolla, the 1,6L motor was brilliant. High revving, 112 to 120 HP depending on the market, and at least ten years ahead of its time. The Corolla itself let the motor down. Terrible damping, silly steering and spring choices, horrific Yokohamas, confused interior etc. - typical 80s Japanese car.

Subaru and Toyota would do well to capitalize on the Corolla plague ("drifting" has been a burden on society I think...) but I hope they don't do anything more than carry on an "image" without actually replicating it.

Toyota used the same motor in their best car of period, the MR2. There, it was placed in the correct spot in the chassis, and the car worked brilliantly.

Anyway, hopefully the BRZ is better thought out than the Corolla. I've got misgivings about using the Subaru boxer rather than a Toyota motor but we'll see. As an idea I like what they're doing, at least on paper.
 
#373 ·
I was looking at the used car dealership and found a 2009 STI with 40k miles stickered at 28k. I cant imagine affording that much car and be willing to get a Limited BRZ for the same price instead.
 
#375 ·
The Fiero is extremely endangered though and will likely be extinct soon. I have not even seen one this year, in a car-crazed area with favourable weather and in which they were once plentiful.

The Fiero did teach me two things:
1. Not every mid-engined car is as good as an MR2; in fact few are (MGF, sorry, I had hopes but...).
2. The Jaguar XJ-S was intended to be mid-engined (the Fiero's butress pillars allowed me to make the connection even though I've driven cars with the same feature for 14 years, it had never clicked in my mind).

The BRZ is likely to do better over time.
 
#381 ·
Just fyi to the 'turbo' model speculations, cited from the above link:

"While past brand history would indicate an STI version would use a turbo, that’s not the case here, with Atake saying that basic modifications to the intake and exhaust, as well as a higher rev limit could up power. In fact, Atake swore off a BRZ Turbo commenting that, “we want to keep turbocharging separate. It is for models like the WRX STI.” "
 
#382 ·
i think its a good thing to keep a little distance between the two cars (wrx, brz) its just that much closer to brand cannibalism to put a turbo in both.

on that note i was at my dealership the day before pre orders started, the service specialist and i were chatting about the brz/fr-s he said subaru's sales rep let it slip that "they are getting the turbo version and scion is not" (he didnt say when). he was completely ecstatic about the brz and showed the dealer plate behind desk saying he will be the first to drive one at their lot.
 
#399 ·
I dont see a problem, brah. that **** is tyte, yo. y'all don' know what yer' talkin' 'bout...



Line art Headgear Costume hat Hat
 
#402 ·
It took me every ounce of dignity to not post up on that site how stupid that BRZ looks like that...some guy said in the comments that it could still handle well looking like that as long as the rear camber was cleaned up. :rolleyes:
 
#403 ·
I despise the "hellaflush" movement and the VW-tards from whence it came. Just about every Jetta in my area is "tucked," "poked," "flush," you name it. The only word I'd use to describe these cars is "crap"
 
#411 ·
That naturally aspirated engine that beats the turbo one could have a supercharger added to it as well and produce MORE power (and thus overcome its weight penalties). In other words, in any given comparison the natural aspirated engine is begging for its own turbo (assuming it can handle the extra power).
 
#412 ·
But there is still merit to both sides. The 3.5l six that is making awesome torque below 2k RPM and even more at the top is a different experience than the 2.0l boosted when it is lagging or running out of top or both. It really depends on the application. This car needs a turbo whereas 3500 lb. car I'd rather have the extra 1.5l.
 
#414 ·
That's a good point, John. There is a point in the weight spectrum where the bigger NA engine starts to make real sense.
 
#413 ·
Linear power delivery will make the car far more predictable, and easier to drive near its limits. I love me some snails, but a smooth, strong NA is a joy to drive fast
 
#422 ·
pretty cool... lmao at a comment under the video:

"so there is room for a V8, but not a turbo?"
 
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