Would an ALK be allowed in STX???
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This is a discussion on Would an ALK be allowed in STX??? within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; plain and simple, would an anti-lift kit be allowed in STX???...

  1. #1
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Would an ALK be allowed in STX???

    plain and simple, would an anti-lift kit be allowed in STX???

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    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    99% sure, no.

    Edit: Neither is a stage 2 map.
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    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
    99% sure, no.

    Edit: Neither is a stage 2 map.
    well my understanding of it is as long as the boost hasn't been touched, you're legal. A good justification of running a stg 2 map in stx that someone told me is "stg 2 on 93 octane is just as powerful as stg 2 stx on race fuel, that's why I don't feel bad about using it."

    but i get what you're saying...
    having said that, I want to improve the handling of my car but at the same time not piss off everyone at an autoX for cheating in a lower class or just plain sucking in a higher class...

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    Registered User MarkF4E's Avatar
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    Don't justify your modifications so they fit in the class. There is a reason that those rules are in there, and therefore you should follow them. Say you run faster than a guy competing regionally or nationally. You have now cheated him out of points for his season because you decided not to follow the rules.


    2007 SCCA Solo Rules

    edit - Just read your post again. No one is going to be mad at you for going slow in SP class (what you would be in for stage 2). They would rather you be in the right class.
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    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF4E View Post
    Don't justify your modifications so they fit in the class. There is a reason that those rules are in there, and therefore you should follow them. Say you run faster than a guy competing regionally or nationally. You have now cheated him out of points for his season because you decided not to follow the rules.


    2007 SCCA Solo Rules

    edit - Just read your post again. No one is going to be mad at you for going slow in SP class (what you would be in for stage 2). They would rather you be in the right class.
    so, it'd be ok if i got a faster time than he did using race fuel but no boost map?

    anyway, i'm not planning on raining on anyone's parade...if by some grace of god I did beat anyone who was actually competing for something, i'd withdraw or protest myself, i just couldn't live with the guilt...
    I just don't like the idea of one little thing throwing you into a new class...

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    Registered User MarkF4E's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by efmd3 View Post
    so, it'd be ok if i got a faster time than he did using race fuel but no boost map?
    Yes, since you actually would be following the rules. Who told you that they would be even? I highly doubt it is true. It just sounds like someone was trying to justify the modifications they had on their car, like you are doing now.

    Quote Originally Posted by efmd3 View Post
    anyway, i'm not planning on raining on anyone's parade...if by some grace of god I did beat anyone who was actually competing for something, i'd withdraw or protest myself, i just couldn't live with the guilt...
    I just don't like the idea of one little thing throwing you into a new class...
    Why not instead of going to all the trouble of being protested just run the right class? Isn't that the most logical choice? It saves everyone the hassle.

    Lets do another hypothetical situation. An evo with an mbc, a tuned fuel system, and a TBE will make near 350 whp. How is that fair competing against a wrx with a stx stg 2 map thats making maybe 200whp? The only rule the evo broke was turning the boost up, just like you have done. Thats why just one little tiny tiny thing throws you into a new class.

    The extensive rules are there to try to make it competitive, and fun. This is not a personal thing against you, so don't take it that way. Alot of people do this kind of thing, and its an unfortunate reality that it will happen. Why don't you just flash to a different map with stock boost for the autocross? I know stx maps are available through open ecu, and cobb has an stx map as well.
    Last edited by MarkF4E; 05-05-2007 at 11:56 AM.
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    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MarkF4E View Post
    Yes, since you actually would be following the rules. Who told you that they would be even? I highly doubt it is true. It just sounds like someone was trying to justify the modifications they had on their car, like you are doing now.



    Why not instead of going to all the trouble of being protested just run the right class? Isn't that the most logical choice? It saves everyone the hassle.

    Lets do another hypothetical situation. An evo with an mbc, a tuned fuel system, and a TBE will make near 350 whp. How is that fair competing against a wrx with a stx stg 2 map thats making maybe 200whp? The only rule the evo broke was turning the boost up, just like you have done. Thats why just one little tiny tiny thing throws you into a new class.

    The extensive rules are there to try to make it competitive, and fun. This is not a personal thing against you, so don't take it that way. Alot of people do this kind of thing, and its an unfortunate reality that it will happen. Why don't you just flash to a different map with stock boost for the autocross? I know stx maps are available through open ecu, and cobb has an stx map as well.

    i wasn't trying to justify cheating... just i guess making a point that little things done to a car can throw it into a higher class, and really ruin the experience.
    For instance, I ran in a rallyX 2 weeks ago and I was several seconds slower than everyone in my class because i couldn't get my ecu reflashed to stg2 (computer woes), but because i had the downpipe, i had to run prepared...
    anyway, classes are there to keep the field level, but sometimes its rediculous. I don't want to compete for the sake of winning, i just want to compete for the sake of competiton. kinda like backyard football,

    but anyway, i'm not trying to justify cheating. i was really just asking about the ALK, but we got off on the tangent, thanks for the answer!

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    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    Guys, most of these events are a drivers race anyway. At least at the regional level I would seriously doubt that anyone would care if you were running a stage two map.

    OP: If you're only running a few of the events during the season and you're worried about your ALK, just run it. You're going to get whooped by the drivers that run regularly anyway. Seat Time > ALK.

    If you want to regularly run the season and compete, well then prep your car to the class, legally.
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    Registered User yosemitemtb's Avatar
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    ALK's put you straight into a mod class, they change a mounting point for the front suspension.

    As for small mods putting you into another class and ruining your experience, if you aren't running for a season trophy, how does it ruin anything? Why do people have such a problem with putting themselves in the right class? You can still compare your times with anyone else that was there, no matter what the class. I run STX (1st place in '06) but after every event I like to see where I would have placed in other classes. We have a couple of hot shoes that run STS that beat me most of the time but the Lotus Elise that runs SS never does.
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    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
    OP: If you're only running a few of the events during the season and you're worried about your ALK, just run it. You're going to get whooped by the drivers that run regularly anyway. Seat Time > ALK.

    If you want to regularly run the season and compete, well then prep your car to the class, legally.
    I like this mindset, I don't think I'll be beating anyone who does this often, and
    Quote Originally Posted by yosemitemtb View Post
    As for small mods putting you into another class and ruining your experience, if you aren't running for a season trophy, how does it ruin anything? Why do people have such a problem with putting themselves in the right class? You can still compare your times with anyone else that was there, no matter what the class.
    I definitely see your point, however If i'm not hurting anyone, why not let me run with my friends?
    I'll have my mind made up before too long. I won't have any reason to not run STX next weekend as that would be my legal class, its just future mods I'm going to have to sort out...

  12. #11
    Registered User yosemitemtb's Avatar
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    Just ask at registration if you can run in the wrong group or have your runs scored as fun runs, you won't score points, but that doesn't seem like that big of a deal for you anyway. In my region, even if you aren't an SCCA member (eligible for points) you can still take points away from someone else, ie. if a member finishes first, a non-member finishes second and I finish third, I would get third place points. In 2005 I finished third for the season, missing 2nd by one point (.028 seconds at the last event would have moved me up). Anyway, have fun and drive fast!

    And those seem like pretty good 1/4 mile times in your sig, one of these days I gotta get to a drag strip.
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  13. #12
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yosemitemtb View Post
    Just ask at registration if you can run in the wrong group or have your runs scored as fun runs, you won't score points, but that doesn't seem like that big of a deal for you anyway. In my region, even if you aren't an SCCA member (eligible for points) you can still take points away from someone else, ie. if a member finishes first, a non-member finishes second and I finish third, I would get third place points. In 2005 I finished third for the season, missing 2nd by one point (.028 seconds at the last event would have moved me up). Anyway, have fun and drive fast!

    And those seem like pretty good 1/4 mile times in your sig, one of these days I gotta get to a drag strip.
    there we go, that's what i wanna do, fun runs. I just want to hang out with friends, maybe make some new ones and test my skills aginst myself...maybe comparing to a couple of friends as well.
    yea, i've done pretty well in the 1/4 mile. I really want an STi 6-speed for non-drag racing though, so i went out and started launching on the ole 5sp and i've gotten pretty good at launching (practice in the dirt w/old tires and your tranny may forgive you )
    BTW that stg 1 time was weird, i wasn't technically stage 1, just an uppipe and some kind of engine reflash (whoever had the car before me ) i can actually post the map i was running if anyone would be able to tell me what it is...

  14. #13
    Registered User penderperson's Avatar
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    Bringing this back from the dead....

    Wondering about the details and reasoning saying ALK = MOD.

    ALK, its a mounting point for the rear of the control arm, agreed. However the rules allow offset bushings, which is, I believe what this does, it offsets the control arm forward.

    Am i understanding the part and its application correctly? Does it significantly change the metal structure or purely hold the bushing on there a little bit farther forward than stock?


    Rob

  15. #14
    Registered User Web Foot STi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by penderperson View Post
    Bringing this back from the dead....

    Wondering about the details and reasoning saying ALK = MOD.

    ALK, its a mounting point for the rear of the control arm, agreed. However the rules allow offset bushings, which is, I believe what this does, it offsets the control arm forward.

    Am i understanding the part and its application correctly? Does it significantly change the metal structure or purely hold the bushing on there a little bit farther forward than stock?


    Rob
    Start reading at post #1606 and read through post # 1634 and you will have your answer. I think.

    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...174189&page=65

    Just barely got my head around it myself now.
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    Registered User penderperson's Avatar
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    I think i know what they're saying, but none of them are using very specific or accurate descriptions.

    I made a post to try and clarify. It doesn't matter which direction(s) an offset bushing acts, so i'm not sure what else makes it an sp/sm part.
    I am glad to have found that though...the whiteline/superpro bushings are cheaper anyway by like half...and if they get caster, for cheaper, i'm sold.

    The wrx is WEAK on caster...my vw gti had 7+ degrees of caster = more dynamic camber = less static camber = better straight line braking/acceleration.

    I'm still not sure that car couldn't be a sleeper nationally...2600lbs(with merely spare tire/jack removal), ~230hp w/ STX mods, and NOW JUST TODAY, "maximum tire size is 265 and the maximum rim width is 9.0 inches, for 2WD" I wonder if 265f 245r would be enough make the gti competitive.


    The ALK feature isn't a real big deal IMO...and besides the engineers put it that way for a reason. the camber/toe/caster are set for highway driving and inexperienced drivers, so those are where most can be gained.

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