STX suspension setup and question thread

[wrx wagone]

I have some basic thoughts and ideas that I wanted to bounce off you AutoX guys. I also figured that we have a bunch of different threads, why not bunch some discussion together.

Here is at least what I'm looking at and some thoughts I'm having:

Current Setup:
'05 WRX Wagon
17x7 B4 Legacy Wheels with 225/45/17 Azenis RT-615
Cusco F. camber plates
Rear camber bolts
Tein H-Techs on stock struts.
20mm R. swaybar with Poltec endlinks
H6 rear brake upgrade
Hawk HPS pads with high temp fluid

Alignment:
2.0 neg f. camber
1.0 neg r. camber
0 toe all around

So my car is still somewhat stock. This is my first season running AutoX in the Philly Region. I've run 8 times this season. I've started to place consistently on the heels of the "fast" guys. I usually end up around top 30% on PAX. I'm still very much working on the driver mod.

Here are my thoughts on some changes for next season:

Whiteline 27/29 front swaybar with Poltec endlinks
22/24 rear swaybar
Koni inserts for the front
Koni inserts or KYB AGX struts for the rear with GroupN mounts

Shocks:
I'd like to stay with struts for next season simply because I'd like to focus more on my driving than playing with suspension settings. I also realize I could go with some stiffer spring rates, but my spring rates are reasonable and I can always switch during the season based on how things go. I could also decide to go with coilovers. meh. Should I get the Koni's or just stick with the stock struts? I've also read that the Koni's in the rear are not worth the money and to simply stick with the AGX's. Thoughts?

Wheels & Tires:
At least regionally, I feel I'm competitive on the setup that I have. I may decide to get 17x8 wheels during the season and move my Azenis over. Ultimately I'd like to go 235/40/17, but I'm content to let that wait until the following season or at least until I need new tires.

Swaybars:
Basically everyone that I've read about that runs a WRX competitively runs a ginormous front bar. I'm willing to give it a try. For the rear bar, a 22/24 seems to be the norm. I don't see any reason to go bigger except to lift my inside rear wheel higher. The rear bar should also give me some room to play with settings.

Please all you AutoX junkies, give my your thoughts, opinions, gut reactions and all that good stuff.

Let the setup discussion begin.

[thechickencow]

It sounds good. I ran only one event with my 29mm front bar and my AGX/sti spring setup and it was pretty decent. I'll let you know as I'm taking my Teins off the car this week and I can give you a bit of feedback on how the car turns in vs. with a smaller bar in the front. I've run now stock, 22, 24, and the 27/29mm. I like the 29 the best. My rear is at 24.

You're setting yourself up well to continue learning without spending a huge amount of money or losing daily driveability.

Currently I'm torn on whether I'll put the Teins back on the car with my 10k/12k setup next year. I'm tired of not having the car to drive around town because its too stiff and I get tired of having to tighten up suspension pieces constantly due to the stiffness. I'll probably end up putting them back on in order to be competitive at hte top of my region, but we'll see.

Jay

[wrx wagone]

It sounds good. I ran only one event with my 29mm front bar and my AGX/sti spring setup and it was pretty decent. I'll let you know as I'm taking my Teins off the car this week and I can give you a bit of feedback on how the car turns in vs. with a smaller bar in the front. I've run now stock, 22, 24, and the 27/29mm. I like the 29 the best. My rear is at 24.

I'd definitely like to know what you think when you go back to struts with that setup.

You're setting yourself up well to continue learning without spending a huge amount of money or losing daily driveability.

Currently I'm torn on whether I'll put the Teins back on the car with my 10k/12k setup next year. I'm tired of not having the car to drive around town because its too stiff and I get tired of having to tighten up suspension pieces constantly due to the stiffness. I'll probably end up putting them back on in order to be competitive at hte top of my region, but we'll see.

Jay

That is exactly what I'm trying to do with this setup. I really don't want to get overly involved with my setup and become distracted on improving my driving which will more than likely net me better gains anyway. Daily driveability is also something that I'm trying to keep with this setup.

[BlkWRXWag]

Looks like you have a good plan.

The one thing I would do is a "freebie"

Take your Cusco front camber plates off and get a dremel. You'll see that when you go to max. camber, the inner ring hits one of the mounting studs. Dremel out some of the inner ring and hey presto, you get more camber. You want at least -3.0 up front IMO.

[wrx wagone]

Take your Cusco front camber plates off and get a dremel. You'll see that when you go to max. camber, the inner ring hits one of the mounting studs. Dremel out some of the inner ring and hey presto, you get more camber. You want at least -3.0 up front IMO.

I still have room to move with the plates. I could easily get to 2.5 or possibly 3.0. I decided to use 2.0 as not to wear out the inside edges of the tires to badly on my daily driver. With running about 40-43 psi up front I rarely hit the sidewall. I do agree that there is some room for improvement, but I'd like to see what affects the swaybars will have.

Max are you running 3.0 up front? How's the tire wear?

[BlkWRXWag]

I still have room to move with the plates. I could easily get to 2.5 or possibly 3.0. I decided to use 2.0 as not to wear out the inside edges of the tires to badly on my daily driver. With running about 40-43 psi up front I rarely hit the sidewall. I do agree that there is some room for improvement, but I'd like to see what affects the swaybars will have.

Max are you running 3.0 up front? How's the tire wear?

No - I run about -4.0 up front and -2.0 in the rear.

Here's how you deal with tire wear.

Max out the camber on the plates and dial in about 3/16th toe out. This is your race setting.

Pull the camber plates back evenly on both sides until your toe is zero - mark the plate - this is your street setting.

So, when you go racing, take a jack with you, lift the car and move the plates to their race position. At the end of the day, lift the car and move the plates back to their street position. Easy really

Remember, it is toe that causes tire wear, not camber.

You can see in this picture how the outside of the inside wheels lift off the ground with the amount of camber I have.

[wrx wagone]

Here's how you deal with tire wear.

Max out the camber on the plates and dial in about 3/16th toe out. This is your race setting.

Pull the camber plates back evenly on both sides until your toe is zero - mark the plate - this is your street setting.

So, when you go racing, take a jack with you, lift the car and move the plates to their race position. At the end of the day, lift the car and move the plates back to their street position. Easy really

Funny, I actaully had this same thought at the beginning of the season. I guess that's the plan.

Now the next big thing... What to do about the struts? At this point is going with the Koni's the way to go, or should I just stick it out with the stock struts until I go with heavier springs? My other thought is that I could use the stock struts and springs in the winter when I throw on the snows. Summer and winter strut assys. Easy.

[BlkWRXWag]

I would certainly use the stock struts over the winter - no point in bashing on your Konis

[wrx wagone]

So, Konis or AGX for the rear?

Paging BigSky...

[Big Sky WRX]

Koni's front and rear if your going to swap IMO. Dig up one of my old threads- I think I have the Koni dynos posted somewhere. The damping on the Konis at low speed (this is where all the "action" is ) is very, very good. Also the Konis you are only changing rebound when adjusting- compression changes very minimally- this is advantegeous as often you are only wanting to increase rebound to get the changes you want.

I'd agree w/ Max- if you can bump up camber a little in front I certainly would consider it.
Also consider a mild amount of toe out front and rear- mild I mean like a mm/side. As long as you rotate frequently you won't have problems w/ that amount (which btw is still within factory spec).

Swaybars I'd suggest going one "step" up front and rear, but that's just the way I approach things- as Jay has tried them all including the biggest one up front then maybe it is worth skipping.

Sounds like you have a good plan. Increasing your spring rates and increasing rim/tire width will also pay off dwon the road, but as everyone knows (or quickly finds out ) it's seat time where the biggest "jumps" are

[wrx wagone]

Sounds like you have a good plan. Increasing your spring rates and increasing rim/tire width will also pay off dwon the road, but as everyone knows (or quickly finds out ) it's seat time where the biggest "jumps" are

Thank you for the input. The driver mod is my biggest focus for next year. That is definitely where the real gains are.

[servanium]

I hapened to be browsing your thread and recognized your car from this past weekend at the Philly SCCA event and noticed you mentioned you attended. I wasn't running in STX, but thats the class I should be in. They put me in Novice because of my lack of experience (last weekend I did my 2nd and 3rd race). I was the silver 02 WRX wagon 12 N was my number if you happened to notice.

I can deffinitly second the sway bar selection. I have cobb sways and poltec endlinks, which i believe are the same as hotchkins (sp?) and they are 25mm all around with an adjustable rear and they seem to ride very well with little roll considering im on stock springs and struts. I deffinitly think you will like something a little more than the sedan RSB.

I'm not sure if your going to be around, or know of it, but there is another event comming up at Ripken on NOV 5th autocross inc is putting it on I will deffinitly be attending.

Well, good luck to you and hopefully I'll see you on the 5th if you make it down.

Jason

[wrx wagone]

Philly SCCA is running at Warminster on Nov. 5th. Which may be worth the run up here.

[servanium]

Yea unfortunatly I'm from Baltimore and Warminster is like 3-4hrs for me where as Ripken Stadium is like 30-40 minutes. Good luck though .

[wrx wagone]

Update bump!

As a few of you might know I purchased a dedicated set of autoX wheels a short time ago. A used set of 17x8 Enkei Tarmacs with 235/40/17 Falken RT-615 tires.





Yesterday I installed my Whiteline 27/29 front swaybar and 22 adj. rear swaybar. Poltec front and rear endlinks finished out the package.

So far I am absolutely amazed at the difference the swaybars made in the handling of the car. I expected quite a bit of change, but it has definitely exceeded that.

Soon I will be installing Koni Inserts and JDM pink springs. Needless to say I am quite excited to see what those upgrades will have to offer.