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This is a discussion on what are your favorite rally videos? within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by zax No, he's a talented driver, there's no doubt about it. However, he seems to lack the ...

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    No, he's a talented driver, there's no doubt about it. However, he seems to lack the discipline of rally legends. This can be generalized for many of the current x-games champions. I feel as though x-games type "rallying" is centric to showboating and advertising more than rally demonstrations of the past.
    i actually agree with you there, these days everything is all about showboating, and marketing... however i do believe that anyone who has the time and money to spend practicing as much as ken block could be better then hem... he's driving just doesn't have that feel most of the other pros show when racing... same with Travis he is way 2 much about showboating as well, to me he is actually worse then Ken Block... but thats because i really don't like him XD do to that sad excuse for a show...

    don't know just my opinion right :]

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    2. Patrick Snijers, BMW M3 at the Isle of Man in 1988.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJB8B...os=xfSCgrGhZ3w

    The car was at least five years behind the times when it was launched. Snijers simply didn't take no for an answer and manhandled a basically primitive car. It was spectacular for the fans.
    my god the sound that E30 makes is tremendous. The display of his control is really captured by his ability to keep that E30 on the road despite how visibly twitchy the car seems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShinceN View Post
    i actually agree with you there, these days everything is all about showboating, and marketing... however i do believe that anyone who has the time and money to spend practicing as much as ken block could be better then hem... he's driving just doesn't have that feel most of the other pros show when racing... same with Travis he is way 2 much about showboating as well, to me he is actually worse then Ken Block... but thats because i really don't like him XD do to that sad excuse for a show...
    Think about what makes a good driver. I don't think these guys are to blame entirely. I don't think it's their fault.

    In fact, on a super special they may be the best in the world for all I know. This won't do either of them any good in a rally over several thousand km though, and there's where the difference lies.

    It's in preparation. The top 10 are not much different but they are also all very well trained. If you look at overlaid video of an amateur crew vs. a top works crew over a special stage, the amateurs may be just as fast if not faster in several sections. The top works guys though understand pacing, understand mechanical sympathy, understand road position (who runs the stage when, and what advantages that gives), and so on.

    This is why top works guys can be several minutes faster than less prepared crews in a rally, yet can do so while not being more than half a second per km faster in each stage.

    There is literally nowhere for those two guys to gain that experience except in the actual events, since their local championship is not relevant. That either could compete even semi-effectively in the WRC is terrific given this. That said, some of their fans are not generally people I'm crazy about (hats, energy drink t-shirts, odd facial hair, and hairstyles only a pro could distinguish from mental illness etc., plus over-use of "bro" etc. is one stereotype that comes to mind).

    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    my god the sound that E30 makes is tremendous. The display of his control is really captured by his ability to keep that E30 on the road despite how visibly twitchy the car seems.
    Snijers simply "willed" himself the podium. The car looks and sounds great but even when it was introduced it belonged in a landfill -- it was outdated from day one. I'd still love to own one, it's a terrific car (and an anachronism)!

    Another video: the event voted the best rally on the calendar repeatedly. This was Group B's swansong for the event. Salonen had at least one flat. Yes I was there, but not all three days - but I do remember it pretty well.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQwY6iXmQC0
    Last edited by SD_GR; 08-12-2010 at 04:55 PM.
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    On paper, the RS200 should have been the fastest group B car, had it the time to properly mature.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTmQdCpnFFo

    Yet, the RS200 perhaps still keeps its place as my favorite rally car of all time.
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    I think the RS200 evolution path was going to be the way of the future. So did Audi, who made what looked like a TT but with a mid engine layout as their Group S prototype (after saying over and over that they won't develop mid-engined 4WD cars because none of their roadgoing cars were mid-engined, yet they did, in secret).

    I don't know if you've seen one in person used in anger, but it is very different in its attitude. It seems to turn on all fours and somehow when it goes over terrain, instead of the car going up and down on the wheels, the wheels go up and down in the car.
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    The Group B Audi Quattro S1 was an absolute BEAST. The sound that thing produced made my pants wiggle.

    I find it a shame that the R4 never got any more production time, that car would have dominated IMO.

    These are the only two videos I could find of it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xIGOxlBzs6A
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLk6Eeixmns
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    If this one doesn't make you laugh out loud you are not human

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJXeD1CU0uc
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  9. #23
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    I have been watching these videos and enjoying them a lot.

    I have a few questions though about rallying. Do you guys have any good websites that might go over some of the rules. I mean what is Group B and any of the other groups. I have seen some races where these guys go all over Mexico. How long are these races and do they have a crew/team or are they on their own? I think it is crazy how close these cars get to the bystanders. I have seen wrecks in the Tour De France. Are there ever any deaths in these races?

    After watching all of these videos I thought I should contribute at least a little.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NizCXeWeH8&NR=1

    Sometimes I drive like this with my wife in the car.
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    Quote Originally Posted by oguitar View Post
    I have been watching these videos and enjoying them a lot.

    I have a few questions though about rallying. Do you guys have any good websites that might go over some of the rules. I mean what is Group B and any of the other groups. I have seen some races where these guys go all over Mexico. How long are these races and do they have a crew/team or are they on their own? I think it is crazy how close these cars get to the bystanders. I have seen wrecks in the Tour De France. Are there ever any deaths in these races?

    After watching all of these videos I thought I should contribute at least a little.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NizCXeWeH8&NR=1

    Sometimes I drive like this with my wife in the car.
    Group B was pretty much all monster cars. Most of them had 500+HP and im my opinion changed the whole meaning of rally. But sadly due to a series of accidents they got rid of Class B overnight. Those men who drove the cars were nothing less then immortals and legends.

    Here is a bit from the Wikipedia i found i know most people dont like it but it can be useful


    The Group B referred to a set of regulations introduced in 1982 for competition vehicles in sportscar racing and rallying regulated by the FIA. The Group B regulations fostered some of the quickest, most powerful and sophisticated rally cars ever built. However, a series of major accidents, some fatal, were blamed on their outright speed. After the death of Henri Toivonen and his co-driver in the 1986 Tour de Corse, the FIA disestablished the class after only four years. The short-lived Group B era has acquired legendary status among rally fans.


    Here is the link if you want to read the whole page.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B

  11. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by oguitar View Post
    Do you guys have any good websites that might go over some of the rules.
    Tryphon Georgallides has what is IMO among the best sites worldwide:
    http://rallycars.com/

    I mean what is Group B and any of the other groups.
    The Groups are like formulae, they are governed by specific rule sets. These rules typically control chassis mass, driven wheels, vehicle configuration, aspiration, displacement, and usually also dictate a minimum production run. The rules also dictate what parts can be used on each car -- only those parts that are homologated, or those parts that are free. If a part is neither homologated nor free it is not legal. If a car isn't produced in the right configuration and the right total numbers it is not legal (unless you are important -- then the minimum production numbers can include spares you have laying about that could make up a complete dozen cars plus any spares you may have in your dreams). See Wikipedia for each group; I don't recommend FIA's own pages as they are a mess -- as are the group rules usually, no wonder there.

    Search for: Group A, Group B, Group S, Group N, and "WRC cars" although the latter are really Group A/8 and beyond.

    I have seen some races where these guys go all over Mexico. How long are these races and do they have a crew/team or are they on their own?
    FIA have done what they can to make sure rallying doesn't seem as popular as it is, so they can milk F1 for money. One of the things they've done is limit rally lengths in both time and total distance traveled. 3 days, and usually no night stages now.

    I think it is crazy how close these cars get to the bystanders.
    This no longer is as crazy as it was. Even well organized local events will have at least one car clearing the stage, plus a helicopter telling people to get off the stage or it will be canceled.

    I have seen wrecks in the Tour De France. Are there ever any deaths in these races?
    Not any more, no, not usually. Things were worst in the mid 80s. Rallying was the most popular motorsport in the world - yes! - and drew live crowds of up to 1,000,000. That's not a typo. One million or more. In some places, like Portugal, the crowds were notorious for their savagery and would just line up in the middle of the stage only to clear at the last minute. Or some would try to touch the car. People died.

    Other places, like Monte Carlo, saw people toss snow and ice onto stages that they thought were too boring, in the middle of tight corners, to make things more lively.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 08-13-2010 at 12:07 AM.
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    nice info/write up on Group B from wikipedia:

    Click: wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B

    regarding accidents/deaths from 1986 before the GrpB ban


    "On the "Lagoa Azul" stage of Portuguese Rally near Sintra everything was to go tragically wrong. Portuguese national champion Joaquim Santos crested a rise to find the road blocked with spectators crowding to see the fastest cars come through. He lost control of his Ford RS200 while trying to stop and plunged into the crowd. Thirty-one people were injured and three were killed. All the top teams immediately pulled out of the rally and Group B was placed in jeopardy.
    Lancia Delta S4.

    Disaster struck again in early May at the Tour de Corse. Lancia's Toivonen was leading the championship, and once the rally got underway he was the pace setter. Seven kilometres into the 18th stage, Toivonen's S4 flew off the unguarded edge of a tightening left hand bend and plunged down a steep wooded hillside. The car landed inverted with the fuel tanks ruptured by the impact. The combination of red hot turbocharger, Kevlar bodywork, and ruptured fuel tank ignited the car and set fire to the dry undergrowth. Only a cloud of smoke and the lack of Toivonen's car at the finish indicated that something was very wrong. By the time rescue workers made it to the remote spot (some 30 minutes, by some accounts) all that remained of the car was a blackened frame with the bones of Toivonen and co-driver Sergio Cresto inside.



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    I remember learning about Toivonen's accident and being completely stunned.

    BTW, club members from the US should know that Sergio Cresto was American. In fact he and John Buffum are IMO the two most famous rally competitors from the US of the pre-YouTube era.

    Repost, worth it for the sound alone:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3Mag...eature=related
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    The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. Ernest Hemingway
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  14. #28

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    free plug and lotsa pics of classic rally cars incl some groupB from the Rally Sow at Chatsworth 2010

    RS200:


    Audi Quattro LWB:


    Audi Sport Quattro:

    .


    Audi Sport Quattro Road Car:



    MG Metro 6R4:


    Gallery Click: clubwrx.net/chatsworth-rally-show-2010-photos

    Classic Rally Cars from Chatsworth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOV2pQ7EUow

    Modern Rally Cars from Chatsworth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPZAlCOglwE


    .
    Last edited by Weasel 555; 08-13-2010 at 12:35 AM.
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  15. #29
    Registered User oguitar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weasel 555 View Post
    nice info/write up on Group B from wikipedia:

    Click: wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_B

    regarding accidents/deaths from 1986 before the GrpB ban


    "On the "Lagoa Azul" stage of Portuguese Rally near Sintra everything was to go tragically wrong. Portuguese national champion Joaquim Santos crested a rise to find the road blocked with spectators crowding to see the fastest cars come through. He lost control of his Ford RS200 while trying to stop and plunged into the crowd. Thirty-one people were injured and three were killed. All the top teams immediately pulled out of the rally and Group B was placed in jeopardy.
    Lancia Delta S4.

    Disaster struck again in early May at the Tour de Corse. Lancia's Toivonen was leading the championship, and once the rally got underway he was the pace setter. Seven kilometres into the 18th stage, Toivonen's S4 flew off the unguarded edge of a tightening left hand bend and plunged down a steep wooded hillside. The car landed inverted with the fuel tanks ruptured by the impact. The combination of red hot turbocharger, Kevlar bodywork, and ruptured fuel tank ignited the car and set fire to the dry undergrowth. Only a cloud of smoke and the lack of Toivonen's car at the finish indicated that something was very wrong. By the time rescue workers made it to the remote spot (some 30 minutes, by some accounts) all that remained of the car was a blackened frame with the bones of Toivonen and co-driver Sergio Cresto inside.



    .
    Talking about tragedy this one happened this weekend. 8 people died. Very sad.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100816/...d_crash_deaths
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    yes it was sad that 8 people died.

    but what makes me mad is that everyone is trying to blame eveyone but the spectators them selfs. at what point do people have to take responsibility for there own actions and quit relying on someone to babysit them everywhere they go? you are adults and you make the decision to stand that close to the track.

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