Clutchless shifting?
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This is a discussion on Clutchless shifting? within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; I got a friend of mine who has an 05 cobalt ss. Now apparently when he races it. He doesn't ...

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    Registered User JoseCorpseGrind's Avatar
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    Clutchless shifting?

    I got a friend of mine who has an 05 cobalt ss. Now apparently when he races it. He doesn't use the clutch to shift. Nor does he let go of the accelerator. He just rams it into the next gear. I don't hear any grinding or anything at all, gotta say, pretty crazy. I've researched it a bit and youtubed some videos and there seems to be some a debate on it so my question to you guys is: Is this insanity or there some actual merit to this?
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    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    It doesn't have to be either.

    I've done it with other cars that were (a) not AWD and (b) not mine.

    For AWD cars, I'd do it on your gearbox -- but not mine.

    Ford actually put out a manual for their MS90 gearbox and it was covered. However, if you have an MS90 you are not hurting for money, and you don't have just one -- you have enough spares to build a car from scratch typically. Oh, and an MS90 used to cost as much as a road going version of the entire car...

    So yes you can do it. It'll get expensive sooner or later and if you are not good at syncing it'll be sooner rather than later.

    What's the big hurry to shift anyway? It's pointless.
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    The Default One SeattleJeremy's Avatar
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    GM makes a map for Cobalt customers to allow for that kind of stuff.

    Do not do that in a Subaru.

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    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Know what I found most disconcerting? I lost tactile feel on my left. So I'd not use the clutch to shift up, but use my left to brake (OK yes just like I'd seen on TV...) and I'd mule kick the brakes, not only ruining any momentum the car might have still had but also unsettling it way to much to feel comfortable. Then next time I'd kick the clutch just as hard for some reason when I'd try to switch back. Never figured anything out. And in any case shifting up clutchless was much easier than shifting down, at least on gearboxes with syncros (think Nissan in my case). The irony is that it's these syncro boxes that are not intended to be shifted clutchless anyway.
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    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
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    Registered User JoseCorpseGrind's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy96gase View Post
    GM makes a map for Cobalt customers to allow for that kind of stuff.

    Do not do that in a Subaru.
    Oh, believe me. I have no intention of trying this, but this was the first time I've seen something like this so I was rather intrigued by it. He kept insisting that he could do it with my car but I wasn't having it haha.

    Oh well, you learn something new everyday.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    .
    What's the big hurry to shift anyway? It's pointless.
    What's the big hurry about turning fast?

    Believe it or not, not everyone has a Subaru to dominate AutoX/Road Course events. A lot of us like the 1/4 mile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoseCorpseGrind View Post
    Oh, believe me. I have no intention of trying this, but this was the first time I've seen something like this so I was rather intrigued by it. He kept insisting that he could do it with my car but I wasn't having it haha.

    Oh well, you learn something new everyday.
    As far as I know, all of the Group N cars have dog engagement gearboxes that do not require the clutch to be disengaged to shift. It's not something that's new, it's just weird that a car from the factory can do so. I've never heard of that.

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    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    I think GrN dictates that the casing be maintained, but the internals are free as long as the number of ratios remains the same (from memory, so I could be wrong).

    The clutchless thing on a road car is more old fashioned than a new thing I think. I remember Minis and TTs and A112s and so on, and one of my teachers in school would do it in his 2002. This is all in ancient times. I've done it in one of my Toyotas and in several Nissans -- the Nissans were the easiest, I could go up and down on problem.

    It'd be interesting to see how many people that participated in Showroom Stock B or Improved Touring shifted clutchless with those Nissan boxes, since these guys were genuinely in a hurry and a gearbox rebuild was not out of the question for them.
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    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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    Registered User JoseCorpseGrind's Avatar
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    Granted it may not be new in general, but it was new to me.
    2003 wrx

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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 99STM
    Believe it or not, not everyone has a Subaru to dominate AutoX/Road Course events. A lot of us like the 1/4 mile.
    You picked the wrong car, then...
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    Registered User poly_poly-man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EJ257 View Post
    You picked the wrong car, then...
    ++



    Anyway, go ahead, shift clutchless - that is, as long as you like buying transmissions.

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    Registered User Semaj07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremy96gase View Post
    GM makes a map for Cobalt customers to allow for that kind of stuff.

    Do not do that in a Subaru.
    KINDA true (the cobalt part). I had a 07 cobalt SS and there is a map for it to no lift shift, not shift without clutching. The 08+ cobalt ss's come stock with that feature (don't need to release the gas to shift...keep it floored type thing). BUT you have to have a spec clutch for the 05-07's to get away with it. The stock clutch sucks on the balts. However, I WAS able to shift without clutching. I did it a few times (literally 2 times) just to see if it was possible and it is. I wouldn't recommend doing it like he was, but I know plenty of people who have had a manual car and are able to do this.
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    The Default One SeattleJeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Semaj07 View Post
    KINDA true (the cobalt part). I had a 07 cobalt SS and there is a map for it to no lift shift, not shift without clutching. The 08+ cobalt ss's come stock with that feature (don't need to release the gas to shift...keep it floored type thing). BUT you have to have a spec clutch for the 05-07's to get away with it. The stock clutch sucks on the balts. However, I WAS able to shift without clutching. I did it a few times (literally 2 times) just to see if it was possible and it is. I wouldn't recommend doing it like he was, but I know plenty of people who have had a manual car and are able to do this.
    Thanks for the correction
    I knew it was something along thoughts lines.

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    Registered User Semaj07's Avatar
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    Hey no problem dude. Cobalts are a car that not many people study, so it is always good when I can share some information about them. It was a good little car for me. However, it felt like it was going to fall apart around the engine/powertrain lol (main reason I no longer have one).
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    Registered User 08BlueRex's Avatar
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    well it's like a rev match. you can save alot of "wear & tear" long term IF you are smart with your tranny. Obviously not shifting without a clutch while accelerating...

    If your gentle and it responds smooth, you are good
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