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    Fuel Question?

    Has anyone been using the StreetBlaze 100??

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    never heard of it myself whereabouts do they sell it ?

    ok google searched all i found was this:
    Oxygenated with ethanol, this CARB-legal fuel is specifically engineered for high-performance street cars including sport compacts, muscle cars, street rods and more. It's environmentally friendly and street legal throughout the U.S. In applications with anything from 4- to 12-cyclinders or engines equipped with a turbocharger, supercharger or nitrous oxide system (NOS), StreetBlaze 100 will generate optimum power and performance. In turbocharged or supercharged applications, it allows an increase in boost without fear of detonation. NOS users can also leverage their higher octane ratings to step up to a more powerful nitrous oxide system. Dyno tests with a turbocharged application proved StreetBlaze100 generates up to 14% more horsepower compared to premium grade 91 octane unleaded gasoline. Designed for use in cast-iron head engines with CRs up to 13:1 and aluminum head engines up to 14:1. Works well on the latest generation of electronically-controlled turbo engines. Contains no metal compounds and won't harm catalytic converters or oxygen sensors.
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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Sounds like glorified e85...? Is it compatible with all fuel systems? Is it cheap like e85? How much of a mileage hit? Our fuel systems are pretty robust based on anecdotal trials, but at least the fuel pump needs to be replaced with a Walboro to run e85. Even the walboro isn't rated for it, but it is reported to hold up well.

    I can't get e85 but would run it if I could.

    This stuff also looks interesting: http://www.bndautomotive.com/page/page/931760.htm
    Last edited by mycologist; 07-30-2009 at 11:57 AM.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    fuel pump and injectors are required for E85.

    On 06-08 WRXs, on a stock turbo, it's possible to just use the fuel pump. On 02-05 and 09 WRXs and all STis you absolutely positively have to replace injectors. 02-05 WRXs can use STi pinks, or "wrx blues" (top feed 565ccs), and 09wrxs and STi's have to go up to at MINIMUM 650's.

    E85 uses ~ 30% more fuel to reach stoich, and 39% for the rich tunes WRXs respond well to under full boost.


    That streetblaze100 looks like it's just ethanolized 100octane fuel?
    Last edited by Sinister; 07-30-2009 at 06:15 PM. Reason: found the % for e85
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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    fuel pump and injectors are required for E85.

    On 06-08 WRXs, on a stock turbo, it's possible to just use the fuel pump. On 02-05 and 09 WRXs and all STis you absolutely positively have to replace injectors. 02-05 WRXs can use STi pinks, or "wrx blues" (top feed 565ccs), and 09wrxs and STi's have to go up to at MINIMUM 650's.

    E85 uses ~ 30% more fuel to reach stoich, and a little more for the rich tunes WRXs respond well to under full boost.


    That streetblaze100 looks like it's just ethanolized 100octane fuel?
    Correct. I was referring to the parts that have been noted to fail from the alcohol abuse not what is needed to fully tune it. You can run a blend and not do injectors which is what I would do at first if it comes here. When I do injectors someday I'll be doing my turbo too.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Correct. I was referring to the parts that have been noted to fail from the alcohol abuse not what is needed to fully tune it. You can run a blend and not do injectors which is what I would do at first if it comes here. When I do injectors someday I'll be doing my turbo too.
    Without a tune, I believe you can't do more than 30% ethanol... otherwise it becomes too lean and the ECU can't compensate for it. I can't remember the specific percentage.. but there's a thread on ethanol mixing over at NastySock. I personally am not a big fan of mixing fuels... Especially with the difference in stoich between 91 and e85... 14.7 to 9.76 is a big difference.

    As far as parts that can fail from alcohol... Everything I've read points to this:
    Alcohol varies in it's corrosive properties, just like any other type of fuel. Methanol is on the higher end of corrosion.. whereas Ethanol is on the lower end. It is very similar to gasoline. I've read quite a few studies with fuel lines and pumps, etc... that the ethanol doesn't corrode at any faster of a rate than gasoline. What I had read is that E85 attracts water at a higher rate than gasoline, which can cause corrosion. We all remember from science class that hydrocarbon fuels are hydrophobic.. meaning oil and gas don't mix with water. Well the opposite is true with E85. All alcohols are hydrophilic, which means they mix well with and attract water. Part of the "other 15" in E85 is hydrophobic agents, and anti corrosive additives. There are also "cold start" additives, detergents and gasoline. But back on the water thing. Since alcohol distilling has come a long way, as long as e85 doesn't sit for extended periods of time, or sit in an open container... water isn't an issue.

    In Alcohol Drags, rubber is no longer used... instead Dupont's "Viton" is, which is also used in aircraft.. but I digress. Viton is a self extinguishing, high heat rubber used for hoses and gaskets in methanol dragsters. It resists the heat of the alcohol burning race cars, and it resists rubber breakdown common with Methanol, and in aircraft it resists breakdown from JP fuels which are very corrosive forms of fuel. Cars that run E85 today don't use any viton components... even "Flex-Fuel" cars from factory.



    Have you found different info that I don't know about John?
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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    Without a tune, I believe you can't do more than 30% ethanol... otherwise it becomes too lean and the ECU can't compensate for it. I can't remember the specific percentage.. but there's a thread on ethanol mixing over at NastySock. I personally am not a big fan of mixing fuels... Especially with the difference in stoich between 91 and e85... 14.7 to 9.76 is a big difference.

    As far as parts that can fail from alcohol... Everything I've read points to this:
    Alcohol varies in it's corrosive properties, just like any other type of fuel. Methanol is on the higher end of corrosion.. whereas Ethanol is on the lower end. It is very similar to gasoline. I've read quite a few studies with fuel lines and pumps, etc... that the ethanol doesn't corrode at any faster of a rate than gasoline. What I had read is that E85 attracts water at a higher rate than gasoline, which can cause corrosion. We all remember from science class that hydrocarbon fuels are hydrophobic.. meaning oil and gas don't mix with water. Well the opposite is true with E85. All alcohols are hydrophilic, which means they mix well with and attract water. Part of the "other 15" in E85 is hydrophobic agents, and anti corrosive additives. There are also "cold start" additives, detergents and gasoline. But back on the water thing. Since alcohol distilling has come a long way, as long as e85 doesn't sit for extended periods of time, or sit in an open container... water isn't an issue.

    In Alcohol Drags, rubber is no longer used... instead Dupont's "Viton" is, which is also used in aircraft.. but I digress. Viton is a self extinguishing, high heat rubber used for hoses and gaskets in methanol dragsters. It resists the heat of the alcohol burning race cars, and it resists rubber breakdown common with Methanol, and in aircraft it resists breakdown from JP fuels which are very corrosive forms of fuel. Cars that run E85 today don't use any viton components... even "Flex-Fuel" cars from factory.



    Have you found different info that I don't know about John?
    No different, I just am failing at being clear about it. If you want to run full e85 you will need the injectors and a tune for sure because you will have to adjust trims for the new injector size and the difference in stoich. If you want to run untuned on a blend you can't do more than the 30% (IIRC) because you will be outside of the 12% compensation that is available in the long term fuel trims. I would not recommend doing that at all either because looking with learning view I am already adding around 5%, so I only have 7% available there. Furthermore, people recommend that these be below 5% for safety of your tune in general especially the upper cell that transfers into open loop in some cases. So that option would be for if you were going to stay very conservative on the loud peddle for a whole tank (not happening here).

    Personally I would consider running a blend with stock injectors and a tune though. I don't see an issue with running it down to around 1/4, then get e.g. 3 gallons of e85 followed by 7 of 93 octane but would keep it exactly the same every time. Then get a map that increases fueling within the injector headroom available to get reasonable fuel trims or reduce the blend until that is possible with a reasonable duty cycle. I would want to see some gains from the octane boost too. Ideally bigger injectors and a big 16g (which is more turbo than I would personally choose here without e85) as my budget eventually allows.

    The info on durability of fuel system components I was referring to was from the long term folks on NASIOC. The Walboro guy chimed in and stated that their pumps are not rated for it and was startled that they held up in real life because they failed in their tests. The stock pumps were failing though everything else seemed to hold up. A theoretical discussion of why a spark arrest in the tank isn't necessary is in the end part of the thread after some guy said they were all crazy for running it at all. That part concerns me a little.

    E85 fuel FAQ - NASIOC

    "For full conversion to alcohol fuels the change list typically looks something like:


    1. Go to an compatable fuel pump (walbro 255 l/h pumps seem to work well with E85)
    2. Replace fuel lines with alcohol compatible lines. (not needed on WRX based on current experience)
    3. Possibly replace filter (not needed on WRX based on current experience).
    4. Replace injectors with large enough ones to feed proper fueling. (+30% flow over stock)
    5. Replace injector/FPR o-rings with compatible o-rings... viton maybe? (not needed on WRX based on current experience)
    6. Add a spark/flash suppressor to the fuel tank inlet tube. (does not appear to be a significant hazard based on current experimenter experience)
    7. Ensure the fuel tank material is completely compatible with alcohol. (not needed on WRX based on current experience)
    8. Reflash or other engine management option for ideal tune to use E85's capability (optional at low to moderate boost)"
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    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Just a few quick little tidbits on alcohol (Methanol.)
    It will eat through your fuel tank. I don't care what it is made of. Just a matter of time. It will eat through your hoses. Just a matter of time. It will eath through your hose AN fittings. Just when. Heat in fuel lines is NEVER an issue as flowing alcohol will almost freeze. The only time it could be hot is when the entire car is up in flames. Not sure what the guy above is talking about with alcohol dragsters. (Guess I should find someone who has four in his shop right now. Oh wait, I just did.) Frost builds up on the ouside of the lines when it is humid out. Flowing alcohol is VERY cold. Watch the injector hat on a dragster/boat/whatever if they have hat nozzles, and it will frost up the injector.
    E85 is very friendly to things like fue lines, tanks, fittings etc. Right at about 106 octane from average tests. Very cool intake charge as flowing alcohol is cool, and makes like a second intercooler. Engine parts last about 30% longer due to the lack of heat in the combustion. It will not contaminate with water anywhere as quick as straight methanol or ethanol. Straight methanol or ethanol have invisible flames when burning. You can be on fire and people will not know. Can be dry on valve seals and upper cylinder stuff. An occasional bottle of upper cylinder methanol lube is a good thing. (Every 10th tank?)
    E85 smells really cool when burned.

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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    The info on durability of fuel system components I was referring to was from the long term folks on NASIOC. The Walboro guy chimed in and stated that their pumps are not rated for it and was startled that they held up in real life because they failed in their tests. The stock pumps were failing though everything else seemed to hold up. A theoretical discussion of why a spark arrest in the tank isn't necessary is in the end part of the thread after some guy said they were all crazy for running it at all. That part concerns me a little.
    Did Walbro mention if they were referring to Methanol or specifically E85?

    That's not good news if it's specifically E85. Is there a fuel pump that is more recommended on there?

    (good info and check list John... Btw Do flex fuel vehicles have stock spark arrestors?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabe View Post
    Just a few quick little tidbits on alcohol (Methanol.)
    It will eat through your fuel tank. I don't care what it is made of. Just a matter of time. It will eat through your hoses. Just a matter of time. It will eath through your hose AN fittings. Just when. Heat in fuel lines is NEVER an issue as flowing alcohol will almost freeze. The only time it could be hot is when the entire car is up in flames. Not sure what the guy above is talking about with alcohol dragsters. (Guess I should find someone who has four in his shop right now. Oh wait, I just did.) Frost builds up on the ouside of the lines when it is humid out. Flowing alcohol is VERY cold. Watch the injector hat on a dragster/boat/whatever if they have hat nozzles, and it will frost up the injector.
    E85 is very friendly to things like fue lines, tanks, fittings etc. Right at about 106 octane from average tests. Very cool intake charge as flowing alcohol is cool, and makes like a second intercooler. Engine parts last about 30% longer due to the lack of heat in the combustion. It will not contaminate with water anywhere as quick as straight methanol or ethanol. Straight methanol or ethanol have invisible flames when burning. You can be on fire and people will not know. Can be dry on valve seals and upper cylinder stuff. An occasional bottle of upper cylinder methanol lube is a good thing. (Every 10th tank?)
    E85 smells really cool when burned.
    Buzz... I was the training officer for a brief period of time as an aircraft firefighter. I had to set up a training class based around the fluoroelastomer: "Viton" for my guys. It's a rubber-like compound that is used in american fighter jets for almost all o-rings, seals, and lines. The reason it is used is because it's resistance to corrosion, it withstands high amounts of heat, and upon combustion is self-extinguishing (VERY important in my world). While researching it all of the damned information that I would find was based around the space shuttle, and top fuel and alcohol drag cars. My assumption was that Viton was used in all 3 of those situations for the same reasons it is used in our F-18 fighter jets. So if I was wrong, I appologize... I understand DuPont's Viton, but I didn't really research it's applications in the Auto Racing world because it didn't pertain to me at the time. So apparently it's used instead of rubber because of it's corrosion resistance and because of it's safety in fuel fires, and not because of it's heat resistance.

    Even though the lines and injectors frost... my question would be to you buzz... Even though per cc methanol burns cooler, what would be the difference in EGTs for a 500ci 100% methanol engine vs our 152.5ci gasoline engine? Since there is 4x more fuel, I would be curious what the actual heat produced by the engine it's self is?
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    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    The consensus was that the Walbro does hold up very well to e85 and that something in the test conditions didn't reflect real world exposure.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    The consensus was that the Walbro does hold up very well to e85 and that something in the test conditions didn't reflect real world exposure.
    That's great to hear... but still slightly disconcerting
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    You are exactly right about the hoses in relation to corosion for the racing world, but heat does not become a factor until the car is on fire. If you look at a funny car, dragster or any of that, the fuel tank is in the very front of the car. The fuel lines are run off of a cam driven fuel pump and straight up to the barrel valve. It never comes in contact, or even close to anything that is more than a little hot to the touch. (Say 100 degrees.)
    If you take a 500 cubic inch deal on gas and double the fuel and run it as is, you will find that the egt's will be about 30% cooler. But with alcohol, you can run heaps more timing than gasoline, so you get the thing a bit warmed back up when you get the tune-up close.
    I run my EGT's on the funny-car at just over 1000. The screw blower guys really turn the wick up and see high 1100s and low 1200s. Some of the guys that are running coated pistons, valves, chambers and exhaust runners can see as much as very high 1300s on alcohol. But you do that without coating the pistons, you will melt them into the oil pan.

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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Holy cow buzz... I can't believe that EGTs are that low on those cars. Most daily driven cars are above your funny car's EGTs...
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    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Yeah, but try and beat a sub 1 second 60' time!!
    Top alcohol funny cars leave the line at 550 degrees.
    Alcohol is cold. No intercooler needed. It is it's own intercooler. But corrosive as can be. Leave it in an aluminum tank and it will eat right through the aluminum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabe View Post
    Yeah, but try and beat a sub 1 second 60' time!!
    Top alcohol funny cars leave the line at 550 degrees.
    Alcohol is cold. No intercooler needed. It is it's own intercooler. But corrosive as can be. Leave it in an aluminum tank and it will eat right through the aluminum.
    So since we're jumping from fuel to fuel...

    Anyone have a clue if propane has any future in the performance auto world? I've heard that propane also burns cooler, and has a higher octane than pump fuel...
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