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This is a discussion on My STX Project / Build thread (56k warning!) within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; -4.0 now that's a fair amount of camber somehow I don't see that understeering too bad -w/ that much camber ...

  1. #31
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    -4.0 now that's a fair amount of camber somehow I don't see that understeering too bad -w/ that much camber up front and -1.0 in the rear
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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  3. #32
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Event #5: WDCR/SCCA at Fedex

    It was scheduled to rain for most of the day but no one knew how hard. Not like you can trust the weatherpeople.

    Heats 1-3 ran in wet conditions varying between "miserable" and "not totally awful". In the middle of heat 4, lightning was seen, and everyone was pulled off the course. Shortly after, an announcement was made that the event was cancelled.

    So... my season so far has pretty much sucked.

    CDC/Bowie: Car not ready yet
    WDCR/Fedex TnT: Wet, didn't do well
    CDC/Bowie: Cancelled, threat of rain
    WDCR/Fedex TnT: Car was understeering, couldn't match competitor's times
    WDCR/Fedex Points #1: Cancelled, ****loads of rain

    I do have events for the next three weekends - but I still have NO idea how my current setup is going to do in the dry.

    In the good news column, a friend of mine is parting out his STi and I may be able to get another Whiteline 27mm bar for cheap.

  4. #33
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    well at least your have some events (our first one cancelled due to snow!)
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  5. #34
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Yeah, we do have it pretty good around here. It shouldn't be mistaken for complaining

    I was just looking at my "to do" list and it's pretty much empty. I need to put some fresh transmission fluid in, and possibly get tuned. At this point I may not even bother this year - the OTS Cobb map is probably good enough. I can always do it later.

    So hopefully the rest of this year will just be devoted to dialing in and driving. My target was to lock in my setup by the end of May and then leave-it-the-****-alone for the rest of the year, and right now that looks realistic.

  6. #35
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, I failed to mention that I'm ST* legal now. I just barely got it done before the first points event (the one that got rained out).

    -Swapped to the new Cobb STX base map.
    Map notes
    -Put the EGT sensor back in the uppipe.
    -Installed my shiny, amazingly crafted TurboXS two-cat downpipe + race pipe.

    It's a little louder, which is nice, because I felt it was a little quiet before

    I am now not 100% set on getting the car tuned. I'm going to have it dyno'd and see where the Cobb OTS map is. If it's not too far off of my old 237 whp STX tune I will probably leave it be for now.

    And the Flyers won, woooo!!!

    john

  7. #36
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    are you running 93 octane? we don't even have access to 93 here
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  8. #37
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Quick resummarization of suspension setups I've had over the last year:

    June 2007 (good):

    400#/450#
    -3.5/-.8, 0 toe
    13.75"/14.25"
    27mm/17mm
    RE070s, 42/38

    July 2007 (plow city)

    400#/450#
    -3.5/-1.2, 0 toe
    14"/13.5"
    27mm/17mm
    RE070s, 42/38
    Corner balanced to "ideal" weights. This caused some static camber gain in the rear since I lowered the car. With the bars I had, the net result was that the car plowed.

    August-end 2007 (OK then good, once rear bar was on stiff)

    400#/450#
    -3.5/-1.2, 0 toe
    14"/13.5"
    27mm/24mm
    RE070s, 42/38
    * Added rear bar to fix balance issues. It did this, and the car rotated well and was quite nice in slaloms but exhibited a lot of wheelspin at corner exit.

    Start 2008 (bad)

    450#/500#
    -3.5/-1.5, 0 toe
    13.9"/14"
    23mm/22mm
    RE01Rs, 38/36


    April 2008 (still bad)

    450#/500#
    -4/-1, little toe out in front
    13.6"/13.8"

    23mm/24mm
    RE01Rs, 38/36
    * More aggressive alignment/height/bar specs to try to fix balance issues.

    The short version is, even with all the camber, and a little toe out... the car still does not feel "right". I guess I am addicted to the Big F*ing Front Bar. The car just feels like it will not turn in, no matter what I do. I cannot get the car to turn in without lifting, which is definitely bad. Someone smarter/better than me could probably be faster than I am - but I am apparently not smart or fast

    The BFFB is going back on, ASAP. I'm going to basically shoot for the end of 2007 setup, but with new rates and new tires:

    450#/500#
    -3.5/-1.2, 0 toe
    14"/13.5"
    27mm/24mm
    RE01Rs, ??/??

    From there, the tire pressures, rear bar, rear ride height and rear camber will be used to tweak balance.

    I am just giving up on getting the car to feel "right" without the big front bar. It matches my driving style pretty well, apparently

    Goal 1: Get the car back to "end 2007" state. This may mean lots of wheelspin. That's fine as long as it turns in and rotates.
    Goal 1a: If time, try to raise height or reduce bar or reduce camber to make the wheelspin go away. This is less important.

    john
    Last edited by ButtDyno; 05-07-2008 at 04:50 PM. Reason: used color=red to highlight differences

  9. #38
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    funny I was probably the very last guy to give the big front sway bar a go- just wasn't a believer, but I am now

    I think w/ the bump in spring rates it was well worth trying a smaller bar- of course you shouldn't have sold the big one first
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  10. #39
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, probably should update the results.

    Event #6: CDC/Bowie 4-26-2008

    This is the event where I tried adding more rake, more camber in the front, and less camber in the rear. The car wouldn't turn in, though it was a much slower/more painful course than the nice big fast lot at Fedex. I did okay, but the understeer was pronounced.

    Event #7: NRR/Cumberland 5-3-2008

    This was a runway course where handling was almost irrelevant. The only sweepers were pretty slow. There were some small slaloms but they were open enough that the lack of turn-in didn't hurt too badly. I PAX'd 6th out of 98 and had the fastest time on street tires. PAX definitely favors the horsepower cars though as these are not exactly technical courses

    Event #8: WDCR/Fedex 5-4-2008

    Same issues - serious understeer at turn in, car sucks in transitions. My driving was pretty meh as well - there were some tricky spots in the middle that I did not get right all day. Managed 3rd place in STX, about a second and a half off of Josh's Spec V (who paxed 23rd out of 222; I PAX'd 69th). For as badly as I drove, 3rd place was a serious break. This was the first points event for STX, so as badly as the year has gone, I am not dead quite yet

    Another epiphany/lesson: the car feels differently at Fedex than it feels ANYWHERE else. The events are as fast as they are at Cumberland but there is so much camber to the lot at Fedex that it ends up being totally unique in terms of car feel.

    Event #9: CDC/Frederick 5-10-2008

    This was a really short course. FTD was 23 seconds. It was pretty much start, figure 8, finish. They were compensating for the rain. I ran in the morning and had a 26.8 in the wet, which was the 2nd or 3rd fastest time in the heat, but was eclipsed by a ton of drivers who ran in the afternoon. Such is life



    The good news - I have a 27mm front bar in the trunk of my MR2, waiting to go on. I will definitely have it for the June 1st event at Fedex. Hope it helps

  11. #40
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    I'll be very curious how the addition of the "big" front bar effects your current setup
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  12. #41
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    EPA vs Dynojet

    I got the car dyno'd last Wednesday.

    Cobb STX basemap, no realtime
    PDE uppipe
    Borla header
    K&N Intake
    Samco inlet
    TurboXS dual high-flow downpipe
    Scoobysport axleback

    225 whp, 224 lb/ft.

    My old STX ProTune (with the regular TXS bellmouth and only one cat) was 234 whp, and IIRC 233 ft/lb. (Both today and my ProTune were on a DynoJet - I need to double check the weather and plot both on the same graph.) I figure I can get most of that back with another ProTune, just a question of finding time and stuff. Dyno plot coming.

    Dyno correction factor thread:
    Proper use of dyno correction factors (a must for those professional tuners) - NASIOC

    Suspension changes

    Quick refresher of the last setup:
    Quote Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
    April 2008 (still bad)

    450#/500#
    -4/-1, little toe out in front
    13.6"/13.8"

    23mm/24mm
    RE01Rs, 38/36
    So, with the big front bar and the Yokos:

    June 2008
    450#/500#
    -4/-1, little toe out in front
    13.6"/13.8"
    27mm/24mm
    AD07's, 39/36

    I was worried about switching to the Yokos with so little time on them, but then I found out that I couldn't run STX at the 6-1 DC event - I had to run ESP so that I could run in the morning. I had to get to a wedding, and we run by class here, so my runs would not count for season points. With less at stake I figured it was a good time to start getting seat time on the Yokos.

    Event 10: Washington DC SCCA @ Fedex Field

    I wasn't really pleased about running ESP and not running for points:



    But seat time is seat time.

    Run 1: 59.3 + 2. The car felt good again! The turn-in was there and I could spend a lot more time on the gas instead of lifting to get the car to rotate. I didn't know I hit the two cones - I didn't hear the announcer say it, so I thought this run was clean.
    Run 2: 59.6 clean. This was a "clean up a coupla things" run and it was slower.
    Run 3: 58.9 + 1. This was my "push push push harder and stay off the brakes you pansy" run. It turned out really well except that I nicked a cone braking from a fast section, into the final left hander.
    Run 4: 59.6 + 2. This was my "do that again but without the cone" run. Except I hit two instead. The tires were too damned hot. I had put one coat of water on them but apparently two is necessary in this sorta weather (low 80's, very sunny). I put my hand on the tires after the run and they were scalding. I could tell 1/4 of the way through the run that the car felt wrong - the tires were squealing a lot more than usual when they shouldn't be, especially in braking zones for some reason. Lesson learned.

    My 59.6 clean would have put me 2nd place in STX, one tenth out of first. So this is a good sign that things are turning around.

    Next two events:
    6-14 in Norfolk. This is on a Navy hovercraft pad, ACU-4. It overlooks the ocean or the bay or something and should be pretty fun.
    6-21 - DC ProSolo at Fedex Field. I hope my clutch holds up
    Last edited by ButtDyno; 07-12-2008 at 10:37 AM.

  13. #42
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    More dyno analysis:



    Red line: Baseline run in 2006 with no engine management (aka "stock mode" on the Accessport).
    Green line: STX ProTune in 2006.
    Blue line: Cobb STX off the shelf map in 2008, plus ST*-legal downpipe.

    The peak difference isn't big, less than 10 whp. But the area under the curve difference, especially between 3000 and 3500 RPM, is *massive*. I bet that's a 20 ft/lb difference at 3250, and almost 10 whp.

    I am seriously considering getting a ProTune again to get that back.

  14. #43
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    sounds like you went the right way w/ the sway bar

    @ 3000 it looks like 180-ish vs 200-ish, I'd say that's probably worth the $ for a tune

    On another note- I seldom hit cones, I have come to the conclusion it's not good driving, rather not driving at 10/10ths

    I need to start hitting a few cones
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  15. #44
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    On another note- I seldom hit cones, I have come to the conclusion it's not good driving, rather not driving at 10/10ths

    I need to start hitting a few cones
    Fear no cone! They live to be smacked. I haven't spun much this year though, just once in the rain

  16. #45
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Unrelated note - by my count, the car has 418 autox runs on it since its purchase, 85K miles total. (not all of them are me.) If the clutch or transmission went tomorrow I would still consider them to have held up really well.

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