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This is a discussion on The Project STX Sedan Thread within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by ButtDyno Why so stoked? Negative camber in the rear is eeevil too much neg camber in the ...

  1. #46
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ButtDyno View Post
    Why so stoked? Negative camber in the rear is eeevil
    too much neg camber in the rear is evil, just as evil- not enough

    I think the optimum rear camber is at least partially dependent on what you running up front, when I ran fixed perched tops it was nice to dial out a little neg camber in the rear, but I knew that there could be too much of a good think- I opted for -0.8 in the rear (maxed out up front w/ -1.3ish). When I went to camber plates I tossed the camber bolts in the rear (well actually sold them ).

    It's going to vary be setup (and driver preference) but a differential of 1-2 degrees more camber front to rear I'd venture would cover the vast majority of ST* setups
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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  3. #47
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    John,

    To be honest, I am quite happy with the 2.1 degrees in the rear (It's only .6 degrees off of stock) From a little TNT last night with my current settings I found the car to be pretty neutral in its handling. It was tail happy but not overly, and VERY controllable.

    I have 22mm front and rear bars with the rear being adjustable and on the stiffest setting at the moment.

    I Like it! I'm going to try the prosolo next weekend with this setup and see where I land on how the car feels.

    Mike and JR,

    Miles at RCE ROCKS! JR he would like to get in touch with you as well (did you use to drive a BMW?). He said WTF! RUN THE WASHER! lol Then he said if I didn't have enough to put in another set of them and that should take care of it. He said that the revised NEW design camber plate has better clearance and a better bearing system. I talked with him about the Tarmac 2 stuff as well and that was good stuff to know. He did not suggest it for my goals, which speaks volumes about them as a company! He said the rates I would want to run would be on the high end and wouldn't give me enough adjustment room.

    Off to work on the car in a monsoon!

    EDIT: My spelling sucks today!
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
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  4. #48
    Registered User efmd3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Off to work on the car in a monsoon!

    EDIT: My spelling sucks today!
    i'm just starting to catch this crap.
    dar be tornados in ma skillet

  5. #49
    Registered User ButtDyno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    too much neg camber in the rear is evil, just as evil- not enough
    Yeah, not trying to say anyone should run zero, Hoppe-style. IIRC he liked a differential of more than 3 degrees. I am not good enough to be fast in a car that loose. I really loved how the car felt at -.8 rear last year and didn't feel like it was too crazy, and with a similar spring rate gap and similar front camber -2.1 was too much for me. As always, driver preference etc etc.

  6. #50
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    Alright, go out to the car and get one side apart only to find out that the domed washers that i have are incorrect! DOH! Or maybe they are not, but it doesn't seem like they fit correctly. The washers that i have only go on the threaded portion of the strut, when used, I cannot get the threaded portion up high enough to get the top nut on... ARG!
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
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  7. #51
    Registered User wrx wagone's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Miles at RCE ROCKS! JR he would like to get in touch with you as well (did you use to drive a BMW?).
    No BMW. I've talked to Miles before. I was almost sponsored by them last year, but it didn't work out. I'm glad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pzary3233 View Post
    Alright, go out to the car and get one side apart only to find out that the domed washers that i have are incorrect! DOH! Or maybe they are not, but it doesn't seem like they fit correctly. The washers that i have only go on the threaded portion of the strut, when used, I cannot get the threaded portion up high enough to get the top nut on... ARG!
    The OE conical washer should fit down onto the collar portion of the strut shaft and you should only be using one of them.
    This message printed on 100% recycled electrons.

  8. #52
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
    No BMW. I've talked to Miles before. I was almost sponsored by them last year, but it didn't work out. I'm glad.



    The OE conical washer should fit down onto the collar portion of the strut shaft and you should only be using one of them.
    Ahh Gotcha

    Yeah it fits onto the collar, but the threaded portion does not seem to be long enough to go through the plate all the way... ARG!

    On a side note, the car rotates NICELY! I had a little fun Sunday with a psudo Auto X session out at a wide open tarmac spot :-) The car handles really well and I don't even have max camber or the offset bushings in yet... I can't imagine what 235 rubber will do!

    Took a road trip (300 miles round trip) Saturday, the rates are still on the cushy side of things for me, lol maybe that is because I'm young? It was rather smooth, and the girlfriend never complained... I was expecting her to do so...
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
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  9. #53
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    passing the girlfriend/wife test is always a plus!
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

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    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    passing the girlfriend/wife test is always a plus!
    YES! very much so! She's wanting to learn how to drive a manual transmission for the sole purpose of Auto X! How cool is that?!?!?!?

    So the more and more I drive this setup I LOVE IT! No new wrenching, other than finding that I needed a different washer and have found them, putting them in the car tomorrow baring tornadoes... which may happen...

    I'm not even in Kansas!

    Oh yeah, junkyard find! I found a Magnaflow Muffler, only to get it out of the car and then I realized that it was a 2.25"... DOH! at least it was just a simple cut the exhaust hanger deals.
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

  11. #55
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    So I decided to do some data logging... found out that my front O2 is screwed... going to order another one... :-( 147bucks... OUCH!

    I am attempting to make my own STX map with the help of a good friend/tuner and an Innovate LC-1

    Hopefully I'll figure out a way to datalog while running this weekend at the Auto X!
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

  12. #56
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    AUTO X TOMORROW!!!!

    It is going to be a short tight course, so I we are looking at a smaller turn out than when the event is held on MMP's road course.

    It is also forcasted to rain all day, so we shall have a lot of fun slipping and sliding around! The girlfriend is thinking about entering tomorrow as well, so pray for my clutch!

    Off to bed now that the car is clean except for jack and tools...
    6 AM is going to come mighty early... but I get to set the course! :-)
    Last edited by Pzary3233; 04-18-2008 at 11:17 PM.
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

  13. #57
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    WOW!!!!!!!!!!



    The car is AMAZING! but there is room for a lot of improvement in both the driver and the setup!

    The car seemed like it was having a rough time transitioning and it felt bumpy and disconnected not fluid. One of our top SM guys mentioned that it seemed as though there were opposing forces working on the back end of the car one wanting to transition and one wanting it to stay put. I could feel it in the car but the course was bumpy so that may be part of it.

    The car also likes to get some 3 wheel action now... going into the turn it lifts the inside rear and then teeters over to lifting the inside front on exit. LOOOTS of tire spin...

    So now this is where I am going to start needing a good bit of help!
    Settings:
    Front and rear rebound on full stiff... I thought I was about a "turn" from full stiff but after the event I realized i wasn't...

    Rear sway on full stiff as well

    Tires, they were at 40psi front and rear warm after a run. Tires seemed to do well if anything the front might need a little bit more pressure due to a tad bit of rolling over.

    Those Kumho MXs were LIGHTYEARS ahead of the old Hankooks!!!

    I have a good bit of body roll still!

    The car is EASY to control, it doesn't snap over steer and only slightly understeers if I am in 2nd and trying to get through a tight course. So down shifting to 1st was needed a good bit to power out of the corner and that worked extremely well!

    I was 2 seconds off of a friend in SM2 which I am usually 6 seconds or so behind on a 60 second course... so the times have very much improved.

    STX was a two driver one car class... my car being the STX car of choice... lol I got beat by my co-drive because of a freaking cone!!!!!!!!!!!

    He drives an .:R 32 with a broken oil pan, he fell in love with the car and wants to get one... he didn't really comment on the setup other than he thought it was a blast.

    So here are some pics from the event!


    How do you like my course design skills? lol
    It was a pretty fast course for what space we had to deal with... we were in a small parking lot for a NASCAR Oval at Memphis motorsports park. I had a combination of 2nd and 1st gear turns. A nice sweeper where we got to about 50 and then a nice technical section where we were really having to work in tight spaces. Surprisingly no one ate a whole lot of cones...

    We did have a 914 with a 911 motor kill our timing equipment but luckily we had an extra set! Whew... another 2k from our program...




    Slight rear tire lift.


    Starting the long sweeper




    Grid


    Back where the car belongs... on the dirt...


    behind a BS Nismo 350Z

    Also when I got the car cleaned out for tech it was about 1" higher... going to move the rear down about 1" or two turns of the adjustment ring.
    Last edited by Pzary3233; 04-20-2008 at 09:19 PM.
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

  14. #58
    Moderating on the run! Big Sky WRX's Avatar
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    sounds like fun- ours has been re-scheduled for next weekend due to snow

    this you already- full stiff on the Koni's is very, very stiff- soften those up

    you might help the rear tire lift w/ softening your sway bar one setting
    "Simplify and add lightness." - Colin Chapman

  15. #59
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Sky WRX View Post
    sounds like fun- ours has been re-scheduled for next weekend due to snow

    this you already- full stiff on the Koni's is very, very stiff- soften those up

    you might help the rear tire lift w/ softening your sway bar one setting
    you think even too stiff for the 450# springs? I've been warned by some people that 450# springs would be too much for the Konis... But I dunno...

    That is what I was thinking of doing with the rear bar... But with having a co driver and only 12 total people in the run group that was impossible.

    I'm going to go do some wrenching tomorrow and I hope to have a corner weight session at Memphis Motor Werks later this week before the HPDE this weekend.
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

  16. #60
    Registered User Pzary3233's Avatar
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    Oh yeah, paxed 5th and my co driver paxed 3rd in the car...

    I really think that I need to work on the nut behind the wheel once I get the car where I feel more comfortable... I played with dampening a bit today but not quite there yet... I'll leave the back seat out this week and make adjustments.
    2002 PSM WRX <- going back to stock Suspension parts GALORE for sale!
    The Project STX Sedan Build Thread
    Race hard or go home!

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