How Many Double Clutch When Heel-Toeing? - Page 3

View Poll Results: Do You Double Clutch When Heel-Toeing?

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  • Yes, not much harder and seems better for the car.

    9 20.00%
  • No, its a waste of time and not that much better on synchros.

    19 42.22%
  • Whats a clutch?... wheres the bewbies option?

    17 37.78%
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This is a discussion on How Many Double Clutch When Heel-Toeing? within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by 04.SPT.WRX I have been too chicken s**t to try this for real. The heel - toe portion ...

  1. #31
    DUB
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04.SPT.WRX View Post
    I have been too chicken s**t to try this for real. The heel - toe portion is tough with a size 15 shoe.
    Just because it is called heal-toe, doesn't mean you have to actually use your heal and toe. I use the left half of the ball of my foot on the brake and the right half of the ball of my foot on the gas.

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by wrx wagone View Post
    The synchros are much faster than my clutch leg.
    +1

    I try to heel-toe, but I am quite poor at it...
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  4. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jma_1000 View Post
    because he can....?

    Exactly, not that I make a habit of doing it, usually around 25mph or so, but if I really want to or am coming into a super tight hairpin I'll throw that sucker down in to first at 35 mph or so and it is beautiful!

    I'm going to keep practicing though, i'm already getting much better at it and it is smooth as silk when I ge tit right...meh

  5. #34
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    "synchros"? Sorry I am newb to subaru and manuals.

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by sysyphus300021 View Post
    "synchros"? Sorry I am newb to subaru and manuals.
    A syncro allows you to shift into a gear without double clutching. It synchronizes the gears so they don't grind. The technology has been around since about 1930 and is found on every manual transmission car and truck produced today (road going consumer vehicles anyway).
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  7. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by DUB View Post
    Just because it is called heal-toe, doesn't mean you have to actually use your heal and toe. I use the left half of the ball of my foot on the brake and the right half of the ball of my foot on the gas.
    Someone who is pretty good at it showed me. It is more of a rocking pivoting motion. I play with it from time to time. Not lately though.
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  8. #37
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    It becomes so easy if you do it all the time. Thats why i started double clutching and just wanted to see if i was an idiot for doing so. Glad to see i'm not. Half the battle is knowing just how much to blip the throttle. You may start by just rev. matching before you let the clutch out on your downshifts, then mastering the fancy footwork should just be putting it all together.
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  9. #38
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    I won't vote because I have not practiced heel-toe in-car yet. I know the idea behind it, but my regular daily size 11 hiking boots (to say nothing of my steel toe work boots) seem to prevent me from being able to do heel-toe in this car. And in the winter, keeping my feet warm takes precedence over skilled shifting technique.

    I do, however, practice double clutching when driving around town on almost every gear. It's easy, fun, and is a synchro-saver. I must say that the subaru is one of the more difficult vehicles I've driven to double clutch with. Revs have to be just right.
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  10. #39
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    Hey guys just a quick question I always revmatch and I've tried double clutching a few times but that quick "blip" on the throttle when the car is out of gear w/ the clutch engaged takes alot longer and seems much less responsive than just revmatching with the clutch depressed any idea as to why that is? Is that normal? Should I just get used to it?
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  11. #40
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    why did you start this thread hahah. since the start of this topic I have been religously trying it every chance I get..I am damn near a pro at it now.

    I still fail to see the point as regular heal toe is already easier on the car and keeps from upsetting the balance of weight from front to back,even allows for some tail braking late into corners...I must say though it is incredibly smooth and I have gotten much faster at it..How many pro road race drivers use this method( the ones without sequential paddle shift of course) Is this taught by most race schools? just curious as I will be attending a week long rally school in florida next year if all goes well.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Micah View Post
    Uhm... should be

    in gear
    clutch in
    pull shift lever out of gear
    clutch out
    revmatch to rpms where your intended gear will want to be
    clutch in
    push shift lever into gear
    clutch out

    The benefit of doing it correctly is very noticeable as the "shift into gear" will feel smooth as silk.
    Curious, total noob in this for some reason and I track too, Wouldn't it be easier to just clutch in, shift, change gear/blip throttle, clutch out at the same time? (Not heel/toeing mind you) I do it fast enough that doing it this way would take longer IMO. I'm trying heel/toe now on some roads near the house. Thanks!

  13. #42
    Registered User SubaruWRC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbleiweiss View Post
    Hey guys just a quick question I always revmatch and I've tried double clutching a few times but that quick "blip" on the throttle when the car is out of gear w/ the clutch engaged takes alot longer and seems much less responsive than just revmatching with the clutch depressed any idea as to why that is? Is that normal? Should I just get used to it?
    like weiss said and I belive what turbolad is saying, is also what I do. Rev match w/clutch depressed and in gear - how is double cluthing anybetter if not worse because it seems like there is more time taken up doubling the cluching

    Is what im describing just called rev matching?
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  14. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by SubaruWRC
    like weiss said and I belive what turbolad is saying, is also what I do. Rev match w/clutch depressed and in gear - how is double cluthing anybetter if not worse because it seems like there is more time taken up doubling the cluching

    Is what im describing just called rev matching?
    Double clutching was necessary on older manual transmissions, that didn't have synchros. Rev matching is simply that - matching the revs between shifts. You don't really need to double clutch in modern manuals, but it does help you get into 1st gear.
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  15. #44
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    It is most definitely not worse for the transmission if you double clutch. Having synchros may make it unnecessary, but one cannot deny that it does prolong their life. It is also a skill that can be fun. I use it for all gears except fifth when possible.

    I just need to figure out how to double clutch/heel toe. Then I'd be in hog heaven.
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  16. #45
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    Double-clutching in the "old days" before syncros was a necessity for smooth shifts, nowadays it is far less of an issue.

    Heel and toe work is not required for street driving either.

    Both are very good techniques for driving at the limit however, and racing is driving at the limit.

    Double-clutching WILL result in a smoother shift, even in a car with syncros on every gear: when all the rotating parts are already moving at the same speed... yeah, smoother.

    Being THAT smooth on the street is nice, but not likely to help, really...
    A fast corner right at the edge of tire grip, on the other hand-
    even a slightly jerky shift can cause you to lose traction, and will at the least change the line you are following through a corner.

    I've used the technique in the past, though I won't say I am a master of it.
    Probably never will be, as I have no plans on racing at this point.

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