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This is a discussion on FIA and Mclaren--news within the Motorsports Talk forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Fiat have done everything they can to make sure Ferrari are seen in the best light possible for the past ...

  1. #16
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Fiat have done everything they can to make sure Ferrari are seen in the best light possible for the past three decades or so, and on its part FIA knows that Ferrari are an historic team and add an air of high roller to F1. There's a lot of money involved for everyone interested so it's natural that certain things will be noticed and others not. Fiat have been smart to hire specific people and put them in key positions, in order to take full advantage of their existing expertise and relationships with the FIA. There are also cultural differences coming into play -- history shows us that if this were Toyota, not McLaren, being sanctioned, the Japanese would take control away from the Europeans in the team and withdraw from the sport entirely, whereas the sanctioning body simply wants to make an initial press statement and then let the matter be buried under mountains of paperwork during appeals.

    That's the intent here -- to make a press release and then let the matter be lost under the tonnage of memos, advisories, court filings, appeals, clarifications etc. The English are no strangers to this and will probably go along with it.
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  3. #17
    Registered User psychobooe's Avatar
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    I'm just afraid that it could unfairly taint Hamilton's amazing rookie season.
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    Cool

    jim bamber does alot of jokes for Autosport magazine, so in lightheartedness heres one from july 17th.

    http://www.jimbamber.co.uk/cgi-bin/j...page=2007/0719



    "F1 has this wonderful ability every so often, like every other race, to shoot itself in the foot. The 'spy case' involving McLaren and Ferrari is one such smoking gun. The cartoon is based around the fact that a McLaren employee took some confidential papers belonging to Ferrari along to a local copier shop!! Honestly if you wrote such a script for tv you would be laughed out of the room."
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  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychobooe View Post
    I'm just afraid that it could unfairly taint Hamilton's amazing rookie season.
    If it's true that Alonso tried to blackmail Dennis in order to make sure Hamilton is either set aside or let go entirely, I think Hamilton will actually come out on top and roses.

    If there is even a hint that Hamilton was at Kinkos late one night making photocopies and delivering the plans for the Death Star to his master, darth Dennis, he'll be driving a cab in Kingston.
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    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  6. #20
    Registered User cavallino333's Avatar
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    I think its a loose loose situation for the FIA. If they just let it go it "says hey stealing other teams material is fine". If they just fine them its to light, with the amount of money these guys spend it practically grows on trees. If they took away just some points theres the question of how many is fair, if they've been using all the information all season then maybe they deserve to loose all there points. I think this was probably the best they could of done in a truly terrible situation. Once it became clear what Mclaren had done it really kind of ruined the season. According to some sources he drivers were pretty heavily involved in this as well so perhaps they should just be happy they made it out with drivers points. I have no doubt that if it were the other way around they would have done the same to Ferrari.
    Last edited by cavallino333; 09-15-2007 at 10:47 AM.
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  7. #21
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    I can't picture Ferrari being banned for two seasons even if they started practicing ritual cannibalistic infanticide. However, I can see them fined just as heavily and I can see any driver for any team kicked out, even M. Schumacher (although I have to close my eyes and really concentrate to envision that one).

    The drivers are very lucky they got immunity as part of their testimony deal. Very, very lucky.
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    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  8. #22
    Registered User SubyPsycho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    The drivers are very lucky they got immunity as part of their testimony deal. Very, very lucky.
    I agree. I think it says something for the popularity of those drivers. Everyone agrees Hamilton is a phenom regardless of any cheating going on, and Alonso is one of the top 2 or 3 drivers in the sport. I think stripping them of points would have infuriated fans, and that's largely why they gave them full immunity.

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by josnroh View Post
    Those F1 guys never do anything cheaply,haha.
    god no kidding
    "Whatever it takes"

  10. #24
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Seems a bit over the top to take all their points. Mclaren had already won four races before they allegedy even became aware of the documents, then lost the next two. A champoinship by Ferrari at this point seems heavily shadowed in my book.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
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    Quote Originally Posted by psychobooe View Post
    I just heard about this while watching Speed. I think the whole situation is pretty shady. I personally can't stand how Ferrari pretty much runs Formula 1. It seems like if Ferrari isn't winning then there must be some cheating scandal behind it because Ferrari is obviously the greatest racing team the world has ever known. The Speed show that I was watching (can't remember the name) had some very telling quotes. When asked about how he would accept winning the constructors championship in such a way, Montezemolo replied that he would gladly accept it and felt that he deserved it. When asked about finishing second because of the circumstances, the BMW Sauber chief said that he wanted no part of it.
    The whole thing just stinks conspiracy.

    thats F1 politics for ya. theres way too much money and sponsorship in the sport. i personally believe that its bringing UK motorsport down and eventually theres going to be sponsorship wars until drivers will be pulling out left and right because of it. its a shame not for Alonso, but Hamilton, because hes been doing awesome this year, but he won't be able to get a constructor's championship for his efforts because of an FIA ruling. its ridiculous. at one point, i questioned why in the hell JP Montoya would go to Nascar, and now I can totally see why.

  12. #26
    Registered User independent 68's Avatar
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    ive never watched f1 racing before and im getting a crash course in their politics. this sounds worse than a highschool athletics and about as mature
    "Whatever it takes"

  13. #27
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    I cannot for the life of me understand why they didn't run Hamilton deeper before the first pit. He obviously had enough fuel to go further but they just let him carry it all around until the second stop, which came way too late to make up any ground on Alonso. Made no sense other than guaranteeing that Alonso would finish ahead of him. Basically, it slowed him down the whole race just so that he could save 1.5sec in the pits at the very end of the race.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mycologist View Post
    Made no sense other than guaranteeing that Alonso would finish ahead of him.
    That's exactly it.

    Hamilton gets paid roughly what an upscale real estate broker would expect. Alonso gets paid roughly what some nations spend on health care. People are watching and they'll inevitably talk about who's worth what, Plus, Alonso may have more dirt and the more time he spends competing for the world driving title the less time he'll have for closed session world motorsport council meetings etc. Also, FIA is keeping an eye on whether McLaren are discriminating against Alonso as a whistle-blower, so keeping up the pattern of discriminating for him is a wise move.
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    Man is a brute.... If you're cruel to him, he respects and fears you. If you're kind to him, he plucks your eyes out. Alexis Zorbas
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

  15. #29
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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  16. #30
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    That's exactly it.

    Hamilton gets paid roughly what an upscale real estate broker would expect. Alonso gets paid roughly what some nations spend on health care. People are watching and they'll inevitably talk about who's worth what, Plus, Alonso may have more dirt and the more time he spends competing for the world driving title the less time he'll have for closed session world motorsport council meetings etc. Also, FIA is keeping an eye on whether McLaren are discriminating against Alonso as a whistle-blower, so keeping up the pattern of discriminating for him is a wise move.
    Makes a lot of sense. I'm starting to have a little distaste for Alonso but I guess that is what it takes.
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

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