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This is a discussion on Two Tone 09 WRX. Pics and story so far....... within the Member Show-Off & Photography forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; Originally Posted by Mikie13 Look into Stage 2 with a downpipe, not just a catback...then get retuned. You'll see 300whp ...

  1. #16
    Registered User kcwrxfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Look into Stage 2 with a downpipe, not just a catback...then get retuned. You'll see 300whp (adjusted for altitude perhaps).

    The color Combo look good. I would agree with some of this. If you go TMIC no point on not doing a DP. catback will give yu a nice rumble for sure.

    However DP and Retune would be hard to grab you 300whp, close maybe 280's depending how aggressive the tune is, but toss that TMIC with the DP and Tune and you will be for sure.
    ~Dan~ 2011 WRX Limited Stage 2 TP Stinkeye Mob #93

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    Registered User 11blackwrx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcwrxfan View Post
    The color Combo look good. I would agree with some of this. If you go TMIC no point on not doing a DP. catback will give yu a nice rumble for sure.

    However DP and Retune would be hard to grab you 300whp, close maybe 280's depending how aggressive the tune is, but toss that TMIC with the DP and Tune and you will be for sure.
    So will a FMIC give you more power?
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  4. #18
    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 11blackwrx View Post
    So will a FMIC give you more power?
    Not worth it on the stock turbo...stick with TMIC. Adding an FMIC on the stock one will add more lag than you'll know what to do with. Power gains would be negligible. If you were upgrading the turbo to say...a 20G or something of that nature, then you'd benefit from an FMIC.
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    Registered User kcwrxfan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Not worth it on the stock turbo...stick with TMIC. Adding an FMIC on the stock one will add more lag than you'll know what to do with. Power gains would be negligible. If you were upgrading the turbo to say...a 20G or something of that nature, then you'd benefit from an FMIC.
    Yea the lag would be pretty bad with stock turbo for sure.
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    Registered User 11blackwrx's Avatar
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    Ah ok thanks
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    Thanks for the advice, all..... A turbo back, which from what I can figure is the same as a catback with a down pipe (is it?), isn't much more cost wise, especially if you figure in the tune on top. I am worried about getting past safety and emissions each year. Also, I read that messing with the cars cat (i.e: removing it) is illegal, so if the cops find out you are in the sh it. In Tennessee no one gave a monkeys what you drove, but in Utah they take it more seriously. The added noise from an exhaust might make them look. Dunno?

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    god the false info is amazing. anyone even own a FMIC here?

    will a FMIC add power? no. it will however allow you to run more boost, more timing and get better numbers because of the cooler air. i dont know many tuners that street tune only, but most will do it in a dyno room. try making as good of timing numbers with a TMIC sitting on a screaming hot motor after 2-3 pulls and see if you can run like a FMIC.

    also there is no lag on a vf52 turbo. the flow rate is almost the same as a 18g turbo at 38-39 lb/min and it can totally support it. its claims like this that made me build my car the way i did so i could show people they're wrong.

    please everyone rip on this and tell me a FMIC sucks. the only thing installed was the FMIC! and of course tuning which shows the VF loves a FMIC with no ill effects. and last, at the price of $935 for the turbo xs FMIC its worth it when the PW is also over $900. and many have shown good numbers on the copy IC's from FMS motorsports at $500.





    Last edited by synolimit; 02-17-2012 at 12:44 PM.

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    OP is the roof done also or just the sides?

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    Man Synolimit, you really like to antagonize.

    However, I cannot argue with you on this subject. Most people are applying the logic from "A" into "B" without realizing the differences between "A" and "B."

    That is, a FMIC was a terrible modification for a stock 2.0L running a TD04-13T turbo. I don't think you will argue that the benefits of timing closer to TDC will outweigh the side effect of increased lag and pressure drop on the EJ205. Even the 2006-2007 WRX reached the peak of the TD04-13T volumetric efficiency without pulling timing and a comparable TMIC would work as well as a FMIC at a lower price point and without modification to the bumper beam.

    That being said, we know that the VF52 is a much more capable turbo than the old Mitsu turbos. The 2.5L motor will be far less affected by the increased lag and increased pressure drop. With tuning, the newer VF52-powered WRX is pushed into the 300whp realm; definitely a point where the FMIC begins to shine. HOWEVER, at speed heat soak is less of an issue and I would be curious to compare your results with a comparable TMIC such as the PWest unit. The difference may be much less than you think. You have a tendency to make claims (and don't take this personally) without providing equivalent data that represents the control group. The scientific method could be used much more effectively in this situation.

    (I will agree that increased inter-cooling will always improve the timing you can tune on a motor. However, many of the FMIC on Subarus are garbage e-bay types that actually provide less intercooling than a quality TMIC)
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    I'm thinking that most people view things from a "horsepower per dollar" point of view.. or at least I did. If you're in a near-stock configuration, the conventional thinking for many years has been that there are other things that you should do first, long before considering the FMIC. I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. Congrats on your power gains..but unless I'm wrong many people have seen some nice gains from simply tuning. It's hard to split out what could be a net gain from the FMIC.

    I think that the advice given here has been sound.
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    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by synolimit View Post
    god the false info is amazing. anyone even own a FMIC here?

    will a FMIC add power? no. it will however allow you to run more boost, more timing and get better numbers because of the cooler air. i dont know many tuners that street tune only, but most will do it in a dyno room. try making as good of timing numbers with a TMIC sitting on a screaming hot motor after 2-3 pulls and see if you can run like a FMIC.

    also there is no lag on a vf52 turbo. the flow rate is almost the same as a 18g turbo at 38-39 lb/min and it can totally support it. its claims like this that made me build my car the way i did so i could show people they're wrong.

    please everyone rip on this and tell me a FMIC sucks. the only thing installed was the FMIC! and of course tuning which shows the VF loves a FMIC with no ill effects. and last, at the price of $935 for the turbo xs FMIC its worth it when the PW is also over $900. and many have shown good numbers on the copy IC's from FMS motorsports at $500.
    No doubt that your numbers look good...however if you look at the plot, you're not peaking til near 3500rmp. Put on a good TMIC I bet your numbers would still be as high, but perhaps peaking sooner as you have much less volume to pressurize in a TMIC.

    Nowhere did I "rip on an FMIC saying it sucks"...I'm just saying at a stock power level and even with a stock turbo, it's just not necessary when other options may be better suited for the money. Not everything is meant to be read between the lines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    Man Synolimit, you really like to antagonize.

    However, I cannot argue with you on this subject. Most people are applying the logic from "A" into "B" without realizing the differences between "A" and "B."

    That is, a FMIC was a terrible modification for a stock 2.0L running a TD04-13T turbo. I don't think you will argue that the benefits of timing closer to TDC will outweigh the side effect of increased lag and pressure drop on the EJ205. Even the 2006-2007 WRX reached the peak of the TD04-13T volumetric efficiency without pulling timing and a comparable TMIC would work as well as a FMIC at a lower price point and without modification to the bumper beam.

    That being said, we know that the VF52 is a much more capable turbo than the old Mitsu turbos. The 2.5L motor will be far less affected by the increased lag and increased pressure drop. With tuning, the newer VF52-powered WRX is pushed into the 300whp realm; definitely a point where the FMIC begins to shine. HOWEVER, at speed heat soak is less of an issue and I would be curious to compare your results with a comparable TMIC such as the PWest unit. The difference may be much less than you think. You have a tendency to make claims (and don't take this personally) without providing equivalent data that represents the control group. The scientific method could be used much more effectively in this situation.

    (I will agree that increased inter-cooling will always improve the timing you can tune on a motor. However, many of the FMIC on Subarus are garbage e-bay types that actually provide less intercooling than a quality TMIC)
    sorry was in a mood. i swear i said something about a td04 but it must of just been in my head.

    about the at speed comment, thats why i said i dont think any tuners do all street tuning. my point in that was when air flow is at its most heat soak isnt an issue. i think a TMIC and FMIC on the road should be even. i wasnt ripping on TMIC's, was just sticking up for FMIC's. id like to see them compared too.

    im my eyes though a FMIC is a better buy for these cars. they come with STI style turbo and mani piping and LGT style piping. you can also run any power you want in the future, any turbo you want in the future, its basically the same price, no ill effects you can tell from a butt dyno, no heat soak in summer traffic, etc etc. speaking about the PW TMIC you need to drop more money on a hose if you buy a STI style turbo so now its more money. in the end you buy something once and you're set for life you know?

    as for the data i thought i was providing that and not just making claims. ive seen guys timing logs with TMIC's and i know im higher at least. it is hard to cover all your bases though! i guess from now on ill just have to provide them also if i can.


    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    I'm thinking that most people view things from a "horsepower per dollar" point of view.. or at least I did. If you're in a near-stock configuration, the conventional thinking for many years has been that there are other things that you should do first, long before considering the FMIC. I've seen nothing to convince me otherwise. Congrats on your power gains..but unless I'm wrong many people have seen some nice gains from simply tuning. It's hard to split out what could be a net gain from the FMIC.

    I think that the advice given here has been sound.
    true. i think its an old way of thinking, plus older years didnt have the crappy plastic end caps. so even at just a stage 2 tune an aftermarket IC is needed. if you know a FMIC is just as good, same price, will work for anything in the future, and most of the time can run more top timing, then im just putting it out there so guys dont over look it and waste money.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    No doubt that your numbers look good...however if you look at the plot, you're not peaking til near 3500rmp. Put on a good TMIC I bet your numbers would still be as high, but perhaps peaking sooner as you have much less volume to pressurize in a TMIC.

    Nowhere did I "rip on an FMIC saying it sucks"...I'm just saying at a stock power level and even with a stock turbo, it's just not necessary when other options may be better suited for the money. Not everything is meant to be read between the lines.
    damn son, 3500 isnt enough? this is my old graph. now im 2 psi more and full boost hits at 2900-3000rpm. thats pretty damn fast! i agree a TMIC could match, but the comments sounded like it wouldnt even be a close.

    i didnt mean to read it that way. as for money and necessity i think its a wash, although on a dyno i believe the FMIC comes out ahead top end. only down side i'll say is install and boost leak testing. i personally dont like buying twice and i do want a STI style turbo. so in spending $900 i chose for the future and not right now.
    Last edited by synolimit; 02-17-2012 at 07:47 PM.

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