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This is a discussion on Canon 1D Mark II within the Member Show-Off & Photography forums, part of the Community - Meet other Enthusiasts category; FYI: The MK II uses both Compact Flash and Secure Digital cards (dual slots). There is a good bit of ...

  1. #16
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    Mk II Memory Card Options

    FYI: The MK II uses both Compact Flash and Secure Digital cards (dual slots). There is a good bit of debate ongoing about which to use and why, but, the majority of folks use CF cards, which are getting cheaper all the time.

    WANNABE:
    Also, you need to realize that you have purchased a Professional photographers tool, which requires work well beyond shooting images. You are now the photographer, photo lab technician, editor, etc. WORK FLOW is a term that you will become familiar with real soon. While the MkII and other 1D series cameras (before and after) will provide good results, they will pale in comparison to one of Canon (or Nikon's-Armin) consumer digital SLRs. The cameras are desgined to do things differently and both have their limitations and strengths. The pro cameras are made to shoot fast and withstand the rigors of field use, while the consumer line is suited toward providing a more-immediately usable image; IE: better eye-appeal in more saturated colors and sharpness. The pro camera has more adjustability, well beyond the usual controls, but rather in tone curves, parameters, etc. Lots to learn. The MK II requires either a firewire or USB 2 interface in order for the camera to communicate with the computer to make many of these adjustments. (The 1D uses firewire.)

    This may all be common-knowledge to some of you, but for others it's not. I mention it to aleviate any discussions about what camera is better, when the real answer is all of them are great at making images in the areas they are designed to excell in. The color from a 20D or N70 will smoke a MK II, straight from the camera; however, with some set-up, both will blow your mind. On the other hand, once you've shot with a pro camera, it's hard to go back. The focus is lightning quick and the shutter release is noticably faster. Bottom-line, as someone has already mentioned, it's the camera operator that makes the images.

    Peace,

    Curtis

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  3. #17
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurbeauxREX
    While the MkII and other 1D series cameras (before and after) will provide good results, they will pale in comparison to one of Canon (or Nikon's-Armin) consumer digital SLRs. The cameras are desgined to do things differently and both have their limitations and strengths. The pro cameras are made to shoot fast and withstand the rigors of field use, while the consumer line is suited toward providing a more-immediately usable image; IE: better eye-appeal in more saturated colors and sharpness. The pro camera has more adjustability, well beyond the usual controls, but rather in tone curves, parameters, etc. Lots to learn. The MK II requires either a firewire or USB 2 interface in order for the camera to communicate with the computer to make many of these adjustments. (The 1D uses firewire.)

    This may all be common-knowledge to some of you, but for others it's not. I mention it to aleviate any discussions about what camera is better, when the real answer is all of them are great at making images in the areas they are designed to excell in. The color from a 20D or N70 will smoke a MK II, straight from the camera; however, with some set-up, both will blow your mind. On the other hand, once you've shot with a pro camera, it's hard to go back. The focus is lightning quick and the shutter release is noticably faster. Bottom-line, as someone has already mentioned, it's the camera operator that makes the images.

    www.pbase.com/cvbjr
    I have to disagree about the MK II paling in comparison to the likes of a 20D etc. Is it more difficult to use out of the box, yes. But with the right operator, it blows the 20D away. The sensor on the MK II is much much much larger in comparison, which is why the MK II and the 1D S will produce much higher quality pictures. Everything is better, not just speed and adjustability.

    The same could be said for medium format cameras like the Hasselblad, it's difficult to learn, but once you figure it out it will take infinitely better pictures than any of the cameras were talking about. I have one and it is difficult to get used to, the MK II was much easier in comparison and could achieve better pics with until I learned the Hasselblad. The same goes when comparing the 20D and other consumer SLR's to professional SLR's.
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  4. #18
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Some great info there. That I will have to try.
    My computer needs are met. I am kindof a computer geek. I have three computers in my office and one for my dyno, and I do not lack for speed, ram and space. I am a photoshop kinda guy. Been working with photoshop for years and years. If I can skip the canon software and just do photoshop, that is the way I will go.
    I now need two things to make my camera functional. (Yes, it was at the house when I came home late this evening.) Well, three things if you count someone who knows how to use it. But I am going through the manual right now, and hopefully will be able to pull down some decent pictures this weekend.
    I bagged two of the 1 gig cards from Sandisk. The Extreme III, I believe they are called. Going to see if that is quick enough. Heard good things about them and I can compare with what I have around.
    As for the camera in general. A little heavier than I though. More connections and options that way than I would have ever though. And quite a complex piece. Reading on the manuals and the website that was recommended is a must.
    Thanks guys!

  5. #19
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEADPOOL
    I have to disagree about the MK II paling in comparison to the likes of a 20D etc. Is it more difficult to use out of the box, yes. But with the right operator, it blows the 20D away. The sensor on the MK II is much much much larger in comparison, which is why the MK II and the 1D S will produce much higher quality pictures. Everything is better, not just speed and adjustability.

    The same could be said for medium format cameras like the Hasselblad, it's difficult to learn, but once you figure it out it will take infinitely better pictures than any of the cameras were talking about. I have one and it is difficult to get used to, the MK II was much easier in comparison and could achieve better pics with until I learned the Hasselblad. The same goes when comparing the 20D and other consumer SLR's to professional SLR's.

    NOTE: I'll apologize for my tone upfront, but it really pisses me off when someone makes a comment without taking the time to fully read a post.

    DP:
    Had you bothered to read all of the words you would have understood the message. Let me quote and high-light for your convenience.

    The color from a 20D or N70 will smoke a MK II, straight from the camera; however, with some set-up, both will blow your mind.

    KEYWORDS: STRAIGHT FROM THE CAMERA. IE: No adjustments made to image.

    Next time, before you choose to discredit one's opinion, read all of the information provided. Your skimming of the text apparently concluded to you that I was implying that a much more expensive pro camera could not match the results of a "cheaper" camera.

    As for your comment about the 1 series camera being more difficult to use, where did that come from? I never implied that it is any harder to use than any other camera. It requires more user involvement in setting up the camera to get results equal to the consumer line in eye-appeal. Some of those adjustments require connecting the camera to your computer; IE: tone curves, parameter adjustments, etc.

    I've been shooting Canon 1D bodies for ~18 months now. Before that, a D60. Once I made adjustments to the 1D, the images looked good with little or no post-processing. Prior to loading custom tone curves, etc, the 1 series DSLRs leaves something to be desired and do not provide the eye-appeal that the consumer cameras will. Just a fact. Like I stated, the 1 series is a professional photographer's tool. It ships with relatively flat settings (sharpness/color saturations, etc) whereas the consumer line is already punched up. The 1 series owner/shooter is EXPECTED to perfrom post-processing of the images, whereas, the consumer line cameras are intended to shoot/download/print without the NEED for post-processing.

    Peace,

    Curtis

  6. #20
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    Wannabe,

    Glad you got your camera. Despite all of the noticable differences from your K-1000's, it still requires the same elements to make images; the control of light and composition. Charge the batteries (there's a process there to learn for good battery life, as well), plug in the card, format it, and shoot.

    As to the cameras wieght, did you investigate this camera before buying? That's a sizable investment in money. The 1D w/ the 70-200 2.8 and flash is heavy, but nicely balanced. You'll get used to it. The pain comes from lugging the gear around the track.

    Good luck,

    Curtis

  7. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by TurbeauxREX
    As to the cameras wieght, did you investigate this camera before buying? That's a sizable investment in money. The 1D w/ the 70-200 2.8 and flash is heavy, but nicely balanced. You'll get used to it. The pain comes from lugging the gear around the track.

    Good luck,

    Curtis
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  8. #22
    Registered User DEADPOOL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurbeauxREX
    NOTE: I'll apologize for my tone upfront, but it really pisses me off when someone makes a comment without taking the time to fully read a post.

    DP:
    Had you bothered to read all of the words you would have understood the message. Let me quote and high-light for your convenience.

    The color from a 20D or N70 will smoke a MK II, straight from the camera; however, with some set-up, both will blow your mind.

    KEYWORDS: STRAIGHT FROM THE CAMERA. IE: No adjustments made to image.

    Next time, before you choose to discredit one's opinion, read all of the information provided. Your skimming of the text apparently concluded to you that I was implying that a much more expensive pro camera could not match the results of a "cheaper" camera.
    Sorry if it pissed you off, I didn't just skim your text. I didn't feel as if the "both will blow your mind" comment was very conclusive as to what you meant. To me it didn't sound as if you meant the MK II or other top end SLR's would surpass it with proper setup or if they would only equal it.

    It was just a misunderstanding as to what you were saying, which is why I didn't crack on you in my post, because part of me wasn't positive on what exactly you meant by that comment. Now we know "and knowing is half the battle"
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  9. #23
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Actually, in regards to your question about my investigating the camera, I went to Jerrod and asked "What is the camera for what we do?" He told me that this is the light model of what Jim shoots and that was that. Bang! He told me to get it from OneCall.com and Bang! He told me to shoot only Canon glass. Boom! The 2.8's for the range of what I do. That was about that. You guys told me the rest.
    Thanks.

  10. #24
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    I don't want to drag this out, but what does Jim shoot? All of the Canon 1 series DLSRs weigh about the same, if not identical. The major differences between the 1D Mk II and 1DS Mk II are sensor size & image resolution, frame rate and likely some algorithm variances for the cameras applicability. 1DS Mk II is intended for studio work and as a digital alternative to medium format cameras, hence the higher rez. The Mk II is a professional sports & photojournalist camera, just as was the original 1D. The S version is not geared toward speed, while the whole purpose of the 1D Mk II is fast autofocus, frame rate and write speed. Considering the items in the package you purchased total ~$6,000, I thought it reasonable that one would fully-know what they were buying, as well as researching the other options before making such a sizable purchase. (Many Mk II's are on the auction block in favor of a lighter camera, which is great for a buyer out there who can't foot the $4k bill for one.) But, hey, I still don't know how the manual diff selection in my STi works, so, I shouldn't throw stones.

    As for a lighter camera (weight-wise), the 20D or Nikon N70 is more than adequate for shooting sports or whatever and are used by many pro's as either a back-up or primary camera.

    All of my rambling aside, the camera you purchased is a great tool and will serve you for many years to come. The shutter mechanism is rated for 200,000 clicks and the body is built like a tank (hence, the weight). It has more seals and gaskets to protect the internals than any camera before it. However, they are on their 2nd or 3rd revision to the firmware to correct bugs, which is downloadable from Canon. This is a normal process as the cameras go through the real-world test. Check the version installed on yours. The latest is V. 1.2.2. If you care to learn more about it go here:
    http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthrea...&page=0#341479

    Wannabe, didn't mean to ruffle any feathers. I can't help to notice the huge jump from K-1000 Pentax to a Mk II. I should have wrote you when you mentioned getting the Mk II back in the "what's everyone shoot?" thread. Perhaps I could have saved you a couple of grand on the body, which could go towards glass. But, if money doesn't matter, you made a great choice.

    Peace,

    Curtis

  11. #25
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    I never had any feathers ruffled. I am very thinck skinned, and from time on the net, I take everything as if it were sarcastic. (Better to take it that way and be wrong than take it seriously and be wrong.)
    I played tight end in the NCAA as a four year starter. I am 6'5 3/8" and weigh 270 pounds. The weight of the camera is not an issue. Just surprised me a little.
    The money is not a factor. I also did a fair amount of research on paper, (the net), but never shot with any of the cameras I was researching. The speed of the 1d won me over. But I thought I would ask someone who does this for a living, and one better, what Jim shot. Although money does become an issue for what Jim has, as it is more than my house, I did not want to make a purchase and forever say; "I should have spent the extra few bucks and purchased the higher quality piece." (I should clarify and state quality, features and options for manipulation.) I hate doing that. I would rather wait until I have the funds to buy the good stuff and get it then. (Been on fire at 180 mph for running something other than the good parts. And that ain't cool.) I also figure that if I can shoot this for half as long as I did the K-1000s, I would get my moneys worth time and time again. It is going to take me a while to get this thing figured out, but it should be a fun ride. And my guess is that I will keep it for just under forever. Like I do with everything else in my life.
    I shot about a dozen shots last night. I will get some in today. We will see how they turn out.
    Oh yeah, P.S. Do you think I need more glass? If so, what do you recommend?

  12. #26
    Registered User Yodaman's Avatar
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    Best quality glass I have seen has been prime lenses. If I had the money I would love a 200mm 2.8 prime but since you already have that focal length in a very nice lens maybe a 400mm prime. If you are mostly shooting drags I would think a 400mm would come in handy but it might be a little too long, not sure.
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  13. #27
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wannabe
    Oh yeah, P.S. Do you think I need more glass? If so, what do you recommend?
    I always think I need more glass, but then again, I'm supplying gear for two of us; my son and me.

    As for you, you may consider a wide angle lens. Reason being, 28mm on the Mk II is not truly 28mm due to the 1.3 multiplication factor applied to your lens range, which is due to the sensor being smaller than 35mm, which is what the industry is based upon. To the camera, the 28 - 70 behaves like a 36 - 91. If you don't have much occassion to shoot wide angle, it's a non-issue. However, when I shoot drags from track side, usually @ 60 - 100' down track, I am leaning against the wall. I tend to shoot slow shutter speeds (<125/sec) and pan w/ the car, which gives a nice feeling of motion to the image and blurs the background. I use a Canon 17 - 35 2.8L, which is effectively 22 - 45.5 mm on my 1D, or 27 - 56mm on my D60 (x1.6). This lens was replaced with a 16 - 35 2.8L.

    Canon is now making a few lenses specifically for the smaller digital format to give a more true equivalent range to traditional 35mm lenses. Their 10 - 22mm is one such lens. Unfortunately, the lenses they have made so far are intended for use with the rebel and 20D cameras and physically will not fit our cameras due to an extension on the back end of the lens. Those cameras have a 1.6 multiplication factor relative to 35mm, btw.

    Anyway, just get out and enjoy your new equipment. There really isn't a lot for you to learn to start shooting. The Canon guide I mentioned earlier really is worthwhile reading in helping you quickly understand how to get the most out of the autofocus system (focus point selection, mode, etc). Here's the link to the downlaodable PDF file. I've printed it out (resized smaller) and keep it in my camera bag for reference.

    http://photoworkshop.com/canon/EOS_Digital.pdf

    If that link doesn't work for you, try http://photoworkshop.com/canon/, then click on TIPS & TECHNIQUES, then Camera Handling & Max Image Quality.

    Also, from the same link, click on Pro Corner for video tutorials on the Mk II. Beats reading the manual.

    One last thing regarding your memory cards. Reformat in the camera after every download. Don't know why, but you will get corrupted files if you do not regularly format the card in the camera.

    Honestly, I could go on for days about this stuff, but that's boring. If you have any questions, feel free to PM or email me and I will be glad to help you in any way I can.

    Peace,

    Curtis

  14. #28
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Once again, thanks for the info, especially on the reformating issue. I think a few too many corrupetd file deals would make me pull my hair out.
    When I shoot at the drags, I am almost always shooting top alcohol or quicker. at 125, things get a little hairy that far out. A top alcohol car is going 100 mph right at 60 feet, and that usually creates it's own movement in the screen with a quicker pattern. But I have tried and will try just about anything under the sun. Even more so now as I am not wasting film developing costs and time. Just shoot whatever and however and let the bad ones hit the trash. I am getting excited about hitting the track again. With the car and the camera.

  15. #29
    Registered User TurbeauxREX's Avatar
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    Samples of wide angle shots from track side w/ 17-35 2.8L on my D60 (pre-1D days). All images are full-frame, no cropping. A 28mm won't allow you to capture the whole car in a side view in the lane closest to you, which isn't a big deal. But, sometimes you want that flexibility. The 17mm range is also handy in the pits or at car shows in tight quarters.

    These were shot in 2003 at NPR for the Div. 4 Points event. I bet you know these guys. Tate won the event and Div. 4 title that year, I believe. Not sure how Rampey did. I think Shelly Howard won TAD.



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  16. #30
    Buzzz Wannabe's Avatar
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    Yes, I know Tate fairly well. I actually have his transmission in my car right now. (Well, it was his. Probably the transmission that was running in that picture.) His newest car was actually built by his crew-chief. Great chassis. The thing was amazing. Of course, I say was because this happened three weeks ago.
    Tates fire
    And yes, I do now Rambo. All too well. (Sorry, I am not a Rampy fan, and we will just leave it at that.)
    I see what you are meaning about those shots. I am not certain if my 24, with the 1.3 built in will be quite wide enough for that. I will see real soon though.
    Let the fun begin . . .

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