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This is a discussion on Aftermarket Alarm System within the Interior Mods forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally posted by ej20fan Their GPS system spanks the Lo-Jack early warning system. It lets you do real time tracking ...

  1. #16
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ej20fan
    Their GPS system spanks the Lo-Jack early warning system. It lets you do real time tracking and a history search of your vehicle, plus notification in case of trigger(cell, pager, email...), as well as road side assistance. Unlike Lo-jack though, they know where your car is, and where it's going as it's being stolen, meaning that no-one has to search for it. and that you get your car back within an hour, rather than the system being activated within that time.
    How are you notified that your vehicle is stolen with these GPS systems?
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

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  3. #17
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    Whenever a trigger is set off, setting off the alarm, the company will call/page/notify you

    or

    A GPS perimeter is set up (1 square ft), and if the vehicle leaves the perimeter, they contact you.

    Both go into effect when used in conjunction with a DEI alarm, Option 2 only when used independently.
    Those fools, EVO vs. STi??? That's like comparing ....wait a minute...there's no comparison. The Suby's still working!!! The evo...well... I hope he got the extended warranty.

  4. #18
    Registered User WRC_Obsessed's Avatar
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    Where are the weak points in a system like this?

    Can a thief cut a wire and it will not work or have the unit pulled out?
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  5. #19
    cnk
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    Originally posted by ej20fan
    This is poor advice!!!!

    I've seen many a car come in with anything from blown fuses, fried circuit boards to well done ECU's. Furthermore, you cannot, or rather should never be able to purchase a viper or Clifford alarm over the counter from an authorized dealer, as doing your own install voids their lifetime warranty. Furthermore, they provide you with a free theft-protection guarantee, meaning that for the first 12 months you own the alarm, they will cover your insurance deductible for up to $2500, in case of theft.

    Also, Clifford alarms work a little different than let's say most presitge, American Hi-Fi or crimestopper, or several other DEI alarms in that they run a normally open ignition circuit rather than a normally closed one. Their Failsafe Starter Kill, requires the alarm to be present, as removing it breaks the starter's circuit.

    Their GPS system spanks the Lo-Jack early warning system. It lets you do real time tracking and a history search of your vehicle, plus notification in case of trigger(cell, pager, email...), as well as road side assistance. Unlike Lo-jack though, they know where your car is, and where it's going as it's being stolen, meaning that no-one has to search for it. and that you get your car back within an hour, rather than the system being activated within that time.
    As I stated, You need to have the time and patience and the knowledge to do it. It's not rocket science and your statement, especially coming from a vendor just leads me to believe that you don't want people to learn something new and take business away from you. Are there folks that shouldn't install their own alarms. . of course. But at the same time, there are those that have the knowledge and can do it without a hitch.

    I am well aware of the differences in alarm systems, all thanks to the months of research I did before purchasing mine and installing it myself. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing special about the installation and if anything, it allowed me to do it the way I wanted and hide all the wires and connections. Unlike most alarm places that install via wire taps and leave wires all over the place, I did a clean install and hid all the wires. No hacking of wires as I've seen from many alarm installers.

    As far as purchasing alarms, with the advent of the internet, people aren't locked in to the rigid pricing schemes of installation stores. It's the same story when it comes to stereo equipment. You can find anything online if you look hard enough. And believe it or not, I got my alarm from an authorized dealer.

    No offense, but I find your defensive posture regarding my advise to be that of someone that's afraid of losing business. I'll be quite honest in my opinion. . .I look at things very simply. . .there's nothing a person can't do if they focus and spend the time and effort on learning how to do it correctly.

    Calvin

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    cnk
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    Originally posted by ej20fan
    Whenever a trigger is set off, setting off the alarm, the company will call/page/notify you

    or

    A GPS perimeter is set up (1 square ft), and if the vehicle leaves the perimeter, they contact you.

    Both go into effect when used in conjunction with a DEI alarm, Option 2 only when used independently.
    You're forgetting the one important thing about GPS systems. . they need line of sight. Drive the car in to a garage with no line of sight to the satellite and you get no tracking. As with anything else, there's no one deterrant that is fool-proof.

    With the rash of thefts that have taken place in NJ in the past year, the only effective solution has been a hidden fuel cut.

    Calvin

  7. #21
    cnk
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    Originally posted by WRC_Obsessed
    Where are the weak points in a system like this?

    Can a thief cut a wire and it will not work or have the unit pulled out?
    As I stated, it needs line of sight. Secondly, all someone would have to do is cut the antenna to the system and it would be dead. Best prevention is to not even let them take the car in the first place.

    Calvin

  8. #22
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    so... out of those 'many a car' how many of them were installs done by 'certified mcep' installers? i've reviewed a few alarm/remote start installs done by 'certified mcep' and they were by far the scariest installations i've ever seen (ie. t taps, loose crimps, alarm brain not properly hidden etc...)

    yes, authorized dealers aren't allowed to sell viper/clifford etc over the counter but who's going to stop them? i'm curious how often does DEI pay that 'anti-theft' guarantee? have you read the fine print? you basically have to prove the vehicle was stolen with the alarm system working and properly armed.

    the on board or even external starter kill does nothing to prevent someone from 'push starting' a manual transmission vehicle. it's recommended to go with an alarm such as the g4/g5 line with the onboard dual point immobilization including starter and ignition kill.

    good advice:

    if you're not comfortable with 12volt and working with your vehicle.. have someone else who's more capable to install the alarm/remote start system.

    if you are, then there's plenty of owners who have succesfully installed their own alarm/remote start systems w/o problems you have indicated.

    remember, you have to pay if you want play...
    netZ

    Originally posted by ej20fan
    This is poor advice!!!!

    I've seen many a car come in with anything from blown fuses, fried circuit boards to well done ECU's. Furthermore, you cannot, or rather should never be able to purchase a viper or Clifford alarm over the counter from an authorized dealer, as doing your own install voids their lifetime warranty. Furthermore, they provide you with a free theft-protection guarantee, meaning that for the first 12 months you own the alarm, they will cover your insurance deductible for up to $2500, in case of theft.

    Also, Clifford alarms work a little different than let's say most presitge, American Hi-Fi or crimestopper, or several other DEI alarms in that they run a normally open ignition circuit rather than a normally closed one. Their Failsafe Starter Kill, requires the alarm to be present, as removing it breaks the starter's circuit.

    Their GPS system spanks the Lo-Jack early warning system. It lets you do real time tracking and a history search of your vehicle, plus notification in case of trigger(cell, pager, email...), as well as road side assistance. Unlike Lo-jack though, they know where your car is, and where it's going as it's being stolen, meaning that no-one has to search for it. and that you get your car back within an hour, rather than the system being activated within that time.

  9. #23
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    Re: Aftermarket Alarm System

    depends on how deep your pockets are. the subaru factory security system does little to protect a wrx with a manual transmission. you either need an alarm system with an ignition kill or an auxiliary system to protect either the fuel pump, fuel or
    main relay.

    if you don't feel comfortable in having such a device installed on the ignition/fuel system have a Mul-T-Lock Transmission Locked installed. this will prevent a person from shifting your vehicle w/o unlocking the shifter collar.

    netZ

    Originally posted by KurleeDaddeeWRX
    I have been seeing TOO MANY threads pertaining to WRX thefts lately. And I have invested a big chunk of change into my car. I already have the upgraded security system that came with the car. But I want more protection. So I am looking into purchasing an aftermarket alarm system. Anyone out there upgrade their alarm system, or have any suggestions?

  10. #24
    Registered User netZ's Avatar
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    you can always buy/program a 1 way dei alarm remote for your 2 way system.

    netZ

    Originally posted by ero2
    I was going to get the viper 2 way, BUT I live in an apartment with my girlfriend and we park in a tandem spot, so sometimes she has to move my car when I am away, which means because the alarm only comes with 1 transponder, she would not be able to move it, thus being SOL. Just a thought for ya guys.

  11. #25
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    someone posted on a message board that the ravelco can be defeated by mashing a 'potato' into the ravelco terminal. not sure if this is true... but if you do get it installed... try it out for me?

    netZ

    Originally posted by WRC_Obsessed
    The first thing I am getting is the Ravelco system. Check it out here. RAVELCO Anti Theft Device Offer (Group Buy)

    The second device I am looking at is the Lojack Early Warning Recovery System.

    This includes the standard Lojack recovery system. The way the early warning system works is that you have a key pass on your key chain, which looks like a remote entry unit. If the car is moved without this unit in the car it sends an alert to Lojack who then notifies you using up to 5 different ways (cell phone, text message, email, etc.) that your car has been moved.

    You will then confirm if the car has been legally towed, borrowed, or stolen. If it is stolen, notify Lojack to have the police start the search. The notification is usually within 15-30 minutes and never more than 1 hour.

    What I like about this system over other 2 way paging devices is that the LoJack doesn't seem to have a distance limit on notification where as the other units get you 2 miles at best (correct me if I am wrong).

    So I think I will go with Lojack Early Warning. To view a demo go to the following site and click on the flash demo in the bottom right hand corner of the page. http://www.lojack.com/products-servi...s-recovery.cfm

    Lojack price is $695. Lojack Early Warning, which includes standard Lojack is $995

  12. #26
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    Granted, there are people who posses the know-how on installing their own alarm systems. Unfortunately, these are few and far between, which is why I recommend having a professional install it. Likewise, I know of a lot of seriously unqualified installers and shops, and make quite a chunk of change fixing their screw-ups.

    CNZ, I apologize for coming down on you, but in general, I do not think that your advice is prudent. Having a professional install the alarm shifts the burden of proof and performance from you (the apparently unqualified, from a theoretica legal standpoint, as you do not do this for a living, nor are likely to be certified), to someone who was supposed to know how to do this. You've got someone to go after, and as a consumer, are no longer likely to be blamed.

    In regards to price scheming, I don't mean to be sarcastic, but there is no great conspiracy with vendors and retailers controlling prices. Think about it. Even if I could control the market price, I cannot control who you buy product from, meaning that there is no incentive for me to stick to any pricing index, as such would not likely influence your decision. If everyone's price was teh same, there is incentive for you to come to me rather than someone else. It is not in my interest to be priced like everyone else. This does make sense, right??

    Since this only applies to over the counter sales, what I can offer, besides a low price, is professional advice, Installation and geniune merchandise that really does come with a warranty.

    NETZ, it's not MCEP, but MECP "Mobile Electronics Certification Program", it's a common mistake. It is merely a certificate of theoretical knowledge, not proof of ability in regards to your installation prowess. For example, a fully paralyzed individual could study for the exam, pass, and yet never be able to do an install. I agree 100% that some of the worst installs I've ever seen were from supposedly certified installers.

    The tracking system is not failsafe, I never stated that it was. It is merely the best available system I have come across. The only failsafe product is their Kill switch, for reasons that I have already explained. Realistically, you can only make your car a more difficult target, not an impossible one.

    The DEI payout is real, most customers that have filed for claims have been cut a check for their deductible. The only one's that have had problems, were customers that requested to have Active instead of Passive arming on their DEI alarms, meaning that the alarm would not self-arm. Again, here we have a case where the burden of proof is shifted to the consumer, rather than the retailer/installer.

    If you disagree, or find that I am not truthful, please feel free to correct me, as I'm not trying to be a smartass, but merely help in the decision making for those looking to upgrade their alarm.

    Again, I apologize if anyone has taken this the wrong way, or if I have offended any of you.
    Last edited by ej20fan; 08-09-2004 at 02:42 AM.
    Those fools, EVO vs. STi??? That's like comparing ....wait a minute...there's no comparison. The Suby's still working!!! The evo...well... I hope he got the extended warranty.

  13. #27
    cnk
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    Originally posted by ej20fan


    CNZ, I apologize for coming down on you, but in general, I do not think that your advice is prudent. Having a professional install the alarm shifts the burden of proof and performance from you (the apparently unqualified, from a theoretica legal standpoint, as you do not do this for a living, nor are likely to be certified), to someone who was supposed to know how to do this. You've got someone to go after, and as a consumer, are no longer likely to be blamed.

    In regards to price scheming, I don't mean to be sarcastic, but there is no great conspiracy with vendors and retailers controlling prices. Think about it. Even if I could control the market price, I cannot control who you buy product from, meaning that there is no incentive for me to stick to any pricing index, as such would not likely influence your decision. If everyone's price was teh same, there is incentive for you to come to me rather than someone else. It is not in my interest to be priced like everyone else. This does make sense, right??
    As I stated multiple times already, I only recommend doing an alarm installation yourself if you have 3 prerequisites. . .time, patience, and knowledge. You also have to consider one thing. . .there are no real professional installation shops where I live. We are limited to Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. type stores. Do you really think that I would trust my car to some high school kid that couldn't car less about my car? Even if there were a professional shop around, I still would prefer to do the work myself. I look at the alarm install the same as the warranty provided by Subaru. . .I've already voided most of my warranty from Subaru from mods so I'm the one responsible for anything that goes wrong. If that's the case, then I would prefer to have total control over the car in all aspects, including alarm installation. Just as you stated, everyone is different and you don't know what their backgrounds are.

    IMHO, you shouldn't be so assuming of people on the boards in terms of what their qualifications are. I see from your profile you're going to law school. . .so you should be very good at reading material in their literal meaning since language is so important in law. If you re-read my original post suggesting a self-installation, you will see that I had provided all the necessary information in order to do the job correctly.

    As for pricing, my reference to it was that equipment manufacturers often put statements in regards to obtaining warranty service or whatnot based upon the customer being required to have the installation done at an authorized dealer. This requirement is used to ensure that customers must buy their equipment and have it installed by a local vendor. Directed has this requirement for their alarms and so does Eclipse for their stereo equipment. This means that the customer is at the mercy of the vendor when it comes to installation and the associated costs. Even if I was a certified MECP installer, I wouldn't be able to install my own DEI or Eclipse equipment unless I was also an authorized vendor or trained to install it by the respective companies. This is what I don't like about those types of pricing schemes. While I understand the reason for the pricing scheme, it takes away the freedom of choice from me as a consumer and as such, I have a right to not buy the product.

    Calvin
    Last edited by cnk; 08-09-2004 at 07:29 AM.

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    Eclipse does this for the customers protection, as the radio's have a safety feature on them requiring a disc, chosen by the customer, to be inserted every time it is disconnected from the battery. If you are unable to insert proper disc, the radio locks up and requires factory servicing, in order to be unlocked. If the owner of the radio reports a radio as stolen, and it turns up at Eclipse, Law enforcement is contacted, and the radio returned to original owner. Purchasing from a non-authorized vendor, does not allow for such protection.

    Being authorized does not mean that our prices are automatically higher. I've matched online competitors whenever possible, for members of this forum, and (Forgive me for this one) Evolution.net, David is on the list for the MR. Selling to only select members of this forum, does not fall under breaking my dealer agreement for online sales with manufacturers, as I don't consider any of you guys/gals ordinary customers.

    I personally use this forum predominantly to move overstock, hard to sell/appreciate items, and do very limited quanitities at that. To put it into perspective, I move more than $140,000 worth of merchandise, at a 53-58 point margin, every month. I've sold, using the evo forum, no more than 8-10k a month at maybe a 25-28 point margin, which in retail stereo shops would not be doable for walk-in customers, if I wanted to stay in business. My service and quality of work manship is what keeps customers coming back and spending their often hard earned $$$.

    You'd be amazed at how often customers will pay more at my shop, knowingly, yet not gripe because of the service and work we offer. Case in point for this one is Godspeed. His downpipe is by far one of the most expensive one's on the market. I still bought it because of the quality and his service. Price is often not an issue, especially with walk-in customers. Being an authorized vendor is merely insurance for the customer, as I am selling 'real' product, and am able to service anything I sell, rather than having to send it out and making my customer wait 4-6 weeks.
    Those fools, EVO vs. STi??? That's like comparing ....wait a minute...there's no comparison. The Suby's still working!!! The evo...well... I hope he got the extended warranty.

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    OK guys I think you have both made your points.
    -Brian

    Twisty Monster - 335 ft/lb of torque @ 3600 rpm on a stock turbo. Is that possible? Yes it is.

  16. #30
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    Sorry, I get frustrated whenever I'm accused of scheming or plotting against my customers. Again, CNK I'm not intending for this to turn into a pissing match, but explain what the benefits are whenever you purchase from an manufacturer's, factory authorized dealer.

    In the end, it's all about good sounds, great product with fair prices and great service. Let me know if you ever need something, or have any questions, or need a wiring print-out for another alarm you're doing.
    Those fools, EVO vs. STi??? That's like comparing ....wait a minute...there's no comparison. The Suby's still working!!! The evo...well... I hope he got the extended warranty.

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