seat belt harness bar ?????

[05autoxwanab]

So I need some feed back about seat belt harness bars and what to buy. I have a 05 WRX that I use to autocross and its time for better belts so I need the harness bar. There are $400 sparco bars and $140 no name bars and I know that the sparco is the best but budget is key and I will spend if needed just want to make sure the cheap one want do the same thing. Whats the best for the job?

[Annihilator817]

Just make sure you never use it on the street.

I'm using a Sabelt, 3 inch belts, 5 points, mini camlock, with FIA approved snap hooks for easy installation/removal at events. Is don't use a harness bar because 1) the fold like a toothpick in even a low speed front impact b) can be deadly if you bump your head on it.

[05autoxwanab]

so do you approve of the cheap bars or go for name brand and they are not for actual wrecks just race?

[Annihilator817]

No bar.

Just use the rear seat seatbelt mount points, and the driver lap belt mount points to secure the harness. Use this hardware: http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/s...shptpt7s6912i0

And correct, this should never be used as any sort of safety restraint.



edit: the passenger submarined out of his 4 point sparco harness and was ejected. The driver hit the steering wheel like he wasn't even restrained. Never use anyhting but your OEM saftey equipment on the street. Harnesses are a potentially deadly addition to any vehicle.









Not to mention if you bump your head on that bar in even a low speed accident, you can recieve a fatal or debilitating head injury.

[05autoxwanab]

no good bro looks like another option is on the table, so all the bars are crap.

[Annihilator817]

no good bro looks like another option is on the table, so all the bars are crap.

As far as safety restaint system, yes, all harness bars are absolute crap. Glad you can see the dangers here. A collison at an autocross is highly unlikely, but just having that bar in your car on the street, even if you're using your OEM 3 point belt, it can be a fatal mistake.



Okay, I'm making this post in an attempt to save the OP or anyone else who wishes to install a harness, harness bar, or roll cage from ending up paralyzed or dead. I see improperly used and improperly installed equipment on a regualr basis, and it kills me to see people risking their lives and their passengers lives simply because they don't have the pertinent information.

You NEVER mount harnesses to the floor, period. What is keeping you from doing a face plant on the steering wheel/dash in a front end collision? The seatback? That seat would snap like a toothpick. Not only that, as you fly forward into the dash, and you will, in even a low speed accident, the harness is going to pull down on your shoulders and compress your spine causing a debilitating or fatal back injury.

Furthermore, harnesses, harness bars, and roll cages have no place in a street car, period.

DO NOT USE HARNESS BARS for safety equipment. Use a bolted or welded in roll cage. But you are putting your life on the line if you use a roll cage, or even a harness bar without wearing a helmet AT ALL TIMES in the car. I know of someone who was killed in a 25mph collision when he bumped his head on his harness bar.

DO NOT USE ROLL BARS/CAGES on the street. You should never get into a car that has any type of roll cage or roll bar in it unless you wear a helmet at all times. See above for a further explaination of why a helmet is necessary.

DO NOT USE 4 POINT HARNESSES. Use 5 or 6 point harnesses. The reason you submarine out of a 4 point harness is that your upper body does not lean forward and over the lap belt like it would with a 3 point. Thus, the g forces force your body out under the lap belt. The act of submarining out of a belt is going to seriously injure and potentially kill you, but once you've submarined out of the harness, you can also be ejected from the car. Also, if you have a 5 or 6 point harness and it works as it should, it decelerates your torso instantly in a frontal impact, but your head will continue moving forward. This will result in a debilitating or fatal neck injury or instantly fatal basular skull fracture. Oh and that front airbag, forget about it because you'll never reach it if the harness works. Never use a harness on the street, period.

Next, harnesses should only be mounted at shoulder level and mounted only to a welded or bolted in roll cage, period. Mounting to the floor, or rear seatbelt mounts, causes the harness to pull down on your shoulders and crush your spine when you are in a frontal impact, causing a debilitating or fatal back injury. Also, you will be hitting the steering wheel/dash with full force if you've bolted the harness to the floor. The only place I would say that it is remotely safe to use an improperly installed harness is the autocross. This is because collisions at autocross events are more than rare, so you would not be at much risk of using the harness as a safety restraint. But, injuries are still possible, at least you can now weigh the risks and make an informed decision as to whether or not you use this equipment in your car.

STREET CARS DO NOT USE AFTERMARTKET SEATS. Well, they don't when they have integral airbags in the seats. When you remove the seats with airbags, the airbag light comes on, and you have now DISABLED EVERY AIRBAG IN THE CAR. You have no more front, side, or curtain airbags. You have also put yourself in hot water with your insurance company by removing your factory safety equipment. If you or someone else is injured or killed in your vehicle, even if the accident is the other guy's fault, you are going to get sued, along with the guy who hit you.

I've had several people mention that 'race cars' use this type of safety equipment, but....

Also consider that accidents in race cars are NOT usually as severe as accidents on the street. Everyone is going the same direction on a race track, so no head on collisions. The track is lined with tire walls and barriers so that it is highly unlikely that you could hit a solid object like a tree. The track is set up so that collisions are deflected and cars can't deccelerate all at once. There should be no spot on a track where you can go head on into something and deccelerate intantly. On the street, the hazards and potential impacts are far greater in likelihood and severity than on a track.

Furthermore, The safety equipment used in 'race cars' is a system, period. You cannot pick and choose what equipment you want to use. No harness without a HANS, no HANS without a helmet, no cage without a helmet, the list keeps going in cirlces. YOU NEED EVERYTHING. Race car drivers do not piecemeal their safety equipment together.

The factory safety equipment is the best possible design for street use and is also a system. When you remove or change one piece, nothing else works like it should. It kills me to see people risking and losing their lives so that they can have some Race Inspired Cosmetic Enhancements on their cars.

If self preservation is at all alive within you, use your factory safety equipment AND ONLY YOUR FACTORY SAFETY EQUIPMENT on the street.

[05autoxwanab]

GREAT info and would have never known had I not asked. I rode at the last autocross event in a car that had a sparco harness and takata belts it looked really good and the feel of not being sloshed around as the passenger was other worldly, so I thought why not get my self one for autox but not any more and I am sending that dude a message about the dangers. way to let a bro know

[Annihilator817]

Like I said, its not a bad idea to use one for autocross because there is almost no chance of a collision at an autocross. I use one myself. But it should be possible to install the harness and still retain the OEM 3 point belts for street driving. Drive to the event with the OEM 3 point, and then use the harness during runs, then use the OEM 3 point to drive home. My point is only that these harnesses should not be used as a safety restraint system on the street, or anywhere that a collision is possible. While a collision is possible at the autocross, its just highly unlikely and you can now make an informed decision and weigh the limited risks, and most people feel that is an acceptable risk, at the autocross.

I've got a trick for you in the time being.

(disclaimer- do not do this on the street, it can result in neck injuries or submarining just like a harness)

Lower the height adjustment on your seat all the way to the bottom.
Tighten your seatbelt as tight as you can get it.
Yank on the shoulder strap to get it to lock.
Crank the height adjustment up to get it real tight.

That will do almost as much as a harness will. Being properly held in the seat by that method or a harness can drop almost a second off of some people's times on a 60 second course.

[MrManny]

But does that put extra strain on your seatbelt locking device?

[rocklizzard91]

But does that put extra strain on your seatbelt locking device?

Should be no more than when it looks in a quick stop?

This was a very good read. I've always liked the look but heard bits and pieces of this info on its dangers so I stayed away. this is a great presentation of all the info. +1!

from my ADR6350 using Tapatalk 2

[Annihilator817]

But does that put extra strain on your seatbelt locking device?

I've been doing it in several different cars for many many years and have never had any issues.

In fact, my co-driver and I have decided we like that better than an actual harness, and just 'scootch and lock' the OEM 3 point now.