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This is a discussion on High Altitude Tuning within the High Altitude Tuning forums, part of the Engine Modifications category; Originally Posted by evoeater_88 Seems to be a big problem up here in the C-O.lol.I just came from texas and ...

  1. #76
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by evoeater_88 View Post
    Seems to be a big problem up here in the C-O.lol.I just came from texas and my 04 WRX is sucking.It's like my car don't even want to move on go.Anyways should i get a tune? How much we looking at.I had one guy say about 500.Would it be worth it cause im here only for a few years so im looking at possible benefits when returning to lower altitudes or if i would have to re-tune there also.Any other suggestions?

    Is it worth it? Most certainly. My friend went from making 220whp on a Cobb map to 252whp on a Pro-Tune. And no, I think you can do better than $500. Try $300-350 if you are cool with a tuner, and work them a little. There are a few cool ones here in CO.

    If you plan on having any fun in your car whatsoever for the next few years you're here, get a Pro-Tune. You won't regret it. I haven't talked to anyone who ever has. You can worry about re-tuning it once you get back down to sea level. Coming from sea level, I imagine you will get frustrated sooner or later and save some $ for a Pro-Tune. Just stop eating fatty cakes.

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  3. #77
    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    My first tune cost 300. My second tune cost 450 discounted to 150.


    A tune WILL NOT cost any more than 450 dollars. Almost any place here will cap you at 3hrs at ~150 an hour.

    Most won't take more than 2hrs to tune unless there was a major change in your vehicle.
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  4. #78
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    just go see Nick at MAC autosports in Parker... he does a great job and they are reasonably priced... MAC Autosport Ltd. - Welcome to MAC Autosport

  5. #79
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    I'd say go to either SuperRupair, or Revolutions Performance.
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    newbie onboard.....

    hello everyone...

    i'm & my04 wrx new here..hopefully can learn from ur guys....
    Would like to know how much for the stock gearbox & engine can handle max hp.?now my04 wrx have 330 hp..

  7. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by wayo View Post
    hello everyone...

    i'm & my04 wrx new here..hopefully can learn from ur guys....
    Would like to know how much for the stock gearbox & engine can handle max hp.?now my04 wrx have 330 hp..
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  8. #82
    Wrinklechops
    Quote Originally Posted by wayo View Post
    hello everyone...

    i'm & my04 wrx new here..hopefully can learn from ur guys....
    Would like to know how much for the stock gearbox & engine can handle max hp.?now my04 wrx have 330 hp..


    OK seriously sorry man this just isn't the right place for that question. I mean, ClubWRX rocks, but just..........wrong thread......um..... try FAQs, or General Powertrain/Engine discussions...here or just any other forum online i.e. NASIOC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Anti-Sleep View Post
    I don't like sleep either.
    Last edited by Wrinklechops; 05-18-2009 at 03:46 AM.

  9. #83
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    Well it looks like i have been convinced I appreciate all the help.Im gonna go check some places including the one's mentioned here first.I knew that one guy was just trying to hustle me cause i was like WHOA500 bucks for a tune,that better be the best fudge eating tune i ever got.lmao.But again i'll ask are there any benefits when returning to a lower altitude or would it harm the car?Either way im going on with the tune.I just figured since it has a new set up for a higher altitude it would do better in conditions that are less harsh like at sea level?Could be totally wrong but im always down for learning and this is something new to me so im really interested in knowing the best set-up for my car here.Thanks again though guys.

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    thanx guys

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    yeah... make sure you tell them if your going back to a lower alt...

    my car was tuned in denver for about 17psi and when i got back home in kansas, im hitting about 20psi... which is what i wanted

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by wudntme View Post
    yeah... make sure you tell them if your going back to a lower alt...

    my car was tuned in denver for about 17psi and when i got back home in kansas, im hitting about 20psi... which is what i wanted
    So your tuner told you it would be safe to run the map with 3 extra psi and no adjustments? What are your mods?
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

  13. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by wudntme View Post
    yeah... make sure you tell them if your going back to a lower alt...

    my car was tuned in denver for about 17psi and when i got back home in kansas, im hitting about 20psi... which is what i wanted
    Did you do a log, and any map adjustments from Colorado to Kansas?
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  14. #88
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    These cars do have the ability to compensate for atmospheric conditions.I am tuned at sealevel.I have no problems driving up to and around the mountains (4-5000ft).Tuning for elevation is just like tuning a these cars in the summer/winter.You have to basically guess at some of the corrections and make/test them later when the actual conditions are present.These are some of the tables,not all:

    http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y90...erictables.jpg
    Last edited by Donkey; 05-21-2009 at 05:48 AM. Reason: *I guess we can't post pictures today?I posted a link...*
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  15. #89
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    here's my mods... vf30, 565cc injec, perrin fmic, invidia header and u/p, perrin tbe, and a few other things ive probably forgotten about...

    sorry, i guess i shoulda prefaced my comment with that stuff... we knew that i wanted that much boost and Nick did the math to compensate for the altitude change he knew i was going to make... ive had it all on my car for so long, i always assume everyone else has done it too... lol

  16. #90
    Admiral Ackbar the 1st mycologist's Avatar
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    This should be in here too:

    Quote Originally Posted by davidm_sh View Post
    Just for fun I will put some numbers to the Pikes Peak example:

    Lets take a stock STi with the stock VF39 turbo.

    1ST - calculate the absolute pressure/air that you are pushing through the engine:
    -At sea level:
    run 14.5 stock psi + 14.7psi (atmospheric pressure) = 29.2psi total.
    -At 6000ft ~ the beginning of Pikes Peak hill climb:
    run 14.5 stock psi + 11.4psi (atmospheric pressure) = 25.9psi total.
    -At 14,380ft ~ the end of Pikes Peak hill climb:
    going off the above example I have noticed about 1.1psi atmospheric drop for every 2000ft you go up (6000ft ~ 3.3psi pressure drop). So 14.5psi + 8psi (atmospheric pressure) = 22.5psi total

    2ND - calculate the % of air loss you experience compared to sea level (aka roughly the amount of hp loss you will experience with a stock STi):
    -at 6000ft 25.9 / 29.2 = 88% so you have 12% less pressure going into the engine
    -at 14,380ft 22.5 / 29.2 = 77% so you have 23% less pressure going into the engine

    NOW same comparison for a NA car in terms of how much % less air:
    -at 6000ft 11.4 / 14.7 = 77% so you have 23% less pressure going into the engine.
    -at 14,380ft 8 / 14.7 = 54% so you have 46% less pressure going into the engine.

    3RD - NOW for the good part - calculate the PR you would have to run on the STi to get the same 14.5psi of RELATIVE boost at each elevation:
    -at sea level - (14.5 + 14.7) / 14.7 = 1.98 PR
    -at 6000ft - (14.5 + 11.4) / 11.4 = 2.27 PR
    -at 14,380ft - (14.5 + 8) / 8 = 2.8 PR

    Some interesting notes on the above example:
    -Just to run the same relative boost pressures WHILE still experiencing a 23% loss in air/power you have to spin the turbo at a PR of 2.8 instead of 2.0 at sea level.
    -The above example doesn't take into account less efficient affects of intercooling with less dense air.
    -The above example doesn't take into account lower VEs from higher turbine speeds from higher PRs.
    -The fact that you have vacuum in the intake tube between your air filter and the compressor wheel/inlet. The short of this is you have to add an extra 0.2-0.3 to your PR since your turbo doesn't even get to work with the above atmospheric pressures I just told you. (This is starting to get into the real world side of things [heh]).

    Now you might say well just turn up the boost to compensate right? Well lets just see what that would do to the PR at 6000ft.

    So we want to run the same pressure through the engine at 6000ft as we did at sea level right?
    -Sea level total pressure = 29.2psi
    -So at 6000ft 11.4psi (atmospheric) + x = 29.2 where x is the amount of boost your turbo has to run which would be 17.8 psi.

    SO the PR for running 17.8 psi would be (17.8 + 11.4) / 11.4 = 2.56 PR compared to 1.98 PR at sea level.

    To help put the PR into perspective lets say for fun you decided to put a TD05H-18G on your STi - here is the comp map.
    www.stealth316.com/images/td05h-18g-jlspec.gif

    So you can see at a PR of ~2 at lets say 500cfm (which might be close to what th engine could injest at redline) the turbine rpm would be 105,000rpm.

    Now at a PR of 2.56 ~ 2.6 at 500cfm the turbine rpm would be 120,000rpm. That is an increase in turbine rpm of 14%. Now I honestly don't know what direct/forumla related link that has to the EGBP but I can tell you it's not favorable. Not to mention the fact you lost about 2-3% effeciency from being on a different part of the map.

    Well sorry to ramble on this long but the short answer is yes you can get a MBC to set the boost up a bit higher at elevation. But you can see that it is pretty much a lose-lose game. Fortunately for you the stock TD04L-13G is so small no matter what you do (short of wiring the wastegate shut or preloading the HELL out of the wastegate with helper springs) you will not beable to hold more than about 10-11psi to redline (if memory serves me correctly... it's been about 3 years since Iran that turbo on a 2.0L [heh]).

    Here is a link to the stock TD04L-13G map if you want to do the same math I did above and see where you fall in the map.
    www.stealth316.com/images/td04-13g-jlspec.gif
    "From a little spark may burst a mighty flame." - Dante
    "The stitch is lost unless the thread is knotted." - Italian proverb

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