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This is a discussion on Suggestion to Subaru within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; First, word of the mouth is the biggest advatisement they get without spending big bucks on TV. (we even pay ...

  1. #1
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    Suggestion to Subaru

    First, word of the mouth is the biggest advatisement they get without spending big bucks on TV. (we even pay Subaru $25k to advatise for them)

    They should listen what cunstomer want (like Sti version of Impreza, legacy and forester). they like to listen asian, european customer more than north american(NA) customer.
    They are forgeting legacy's success in NA. Without that success, there is no Subaru today. (In Japan, Subaru performed (financially) so badly the company almost go out business)
    Ignoring NA customer (biggest market in the world) = no future in Subaru.

    Stop BS about small thing. Anybody can make good cars. Selling car is different story. Like Ritz hotel (every employ has power to compensate customer up limit $2000 without asking their boss). So SOA give each dealer power to handle small claims without asking SOA.

    Develop technical center in NA to work with customer/dealer/supplier.

    Work with aftermarket community to make more user friendly atomospher.

    please add more

    taka

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  3. #2
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Yeah, many companies work with the aftermarket scene to increase their visibility. Subaru is worse than VW.

    (VW actually had pamphlets against aftermarket mods)

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    <----wondering if he thinks he's talking to Subaru of America here instead of an internet forum......hmmm.....

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    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    I'm quite certain someone at SOA monitors these forums.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

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    Registered User BoarderEight's Avatar
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    They could do a lot to improve their aftermarket customer satisfaction, but look at what they have done so far...were all happy about the MOMO leather wrapped steering wheel right?

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    Moderator aussieinstlouis's Avatar
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    I think that you are overestimating the NA buy of SUbaru.
    US is around 270 million consumers.
    Australia is 19 million.
    first release of WRX in NA 10000 vehicles
    WRX sales in Australia last year 9850

    First release of STi in Australia was 400 vehicles (expanded to 500 in subsequent years all sold before they got to the dealership) planned release of STi (so I have heard) is around 1700 vehicles in the US. I have no idea of the figures in Europe, but there is a similar attitudes to vehicles there as in Australia.

    If the US is such a consumer of Subarus - why is that number not 8000 STi s?? (20 times 400, like the population??)

    No offence, but the US loves its big, domestically produced cars, SUVs and trucks. If Subaru bowed to the whim of US consumers it reputation would be down the tube in every other market. The WRX exists to ensure it can compete in WRC (the vehicle entered must have a production version). Where is a US produced car in this competition?

    To sell out to US consumers would be at the detriment of every other market that Subaru has.

    My 0.02

    Andrew
    aussieinstlouis

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    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    Not sure I follow you Andrew.....

    If you're saying that in the realm of performance cars, Subaru should keep aiming them at the Europe and Aussie markets and not cater to American tastes (basically gut the car in terms of performance in exchange for creature comforts like power seats and leather upholstery, etc.) then I fully agree with you. Keep that sort of thing in the Outback (the model line, not the rural part of a certain island continent ). Is that what you're saying?

    I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Subaru's profits are very dependent on their statistical models of reliability during the warranty period. Aftermarket parts throw all this out the window. For them to work with these parts, they need to test every one to make sure it fits the reliability standards of the rest of the car.

    Take a simple and popular part like an up-pipe. There must be 10 or 15 different ones on the market, and only a couple feature a flexible design like the stocker. First off, they would have to test all 10 or 15, because everyone takes the attitude that they are just a pipe with flanges welded on, so just go with the cheapest. The non-flexible design of these puts additional stress on both the Turbo and its mountings, as well as the exhaust manifolds that the original design did not have to consider. Now I'm sure many will poo-poo this suggestion, but this is the kind of overall systems engineering that a car manufacturer considers when designing a new car.

    Now people come charging in with Magnusson-Moss, stating that Subaru must prove that something broke as a direct result of an aftermarket part. The general consensus around here seems to be that if, say, you put in an uppipe and the exhaust manifold cracked, nothing short of videotaped evidence showing the uppipe performing a physical action to crack the manifold would be good enough proof.

    This attitude seems to extend to every part on the car. If you strap a big-ass turbo on and produce a bunch more power and break the tranny, the attitude seems to be "ha! just let them prove it was the Turbo". It's not enough (again, in the opinions around here) for Subaru to prove that the failure came as a result of too much power being put through the tranny, but rather that Subaru would have to prove that the Turbo somehow reached into the tranny and broke it.

    So this puts Subaru in a bad spot. First off, I don't think they anticipated the fact that the majority of WRXs would be driven by teenagers. So they've already had more than their fair share of failures due to willful abuse. Now they have people going nuts on the mods and still expecting their warranties to be in effect. Subaru has been forced to take a tough stand in order to stem the tide moving against them. If only a few cars were modded it would be easy to look the other way. But when the majority of them get mods that possibly cause problems, they start losing money. Plus their reliability reputation goes down when people go around saying "yeah, my tranny broke and Subaru wouldn't fix it", failing to add "'cause I added an extra 100hp to the power output with aftermarket components". That's just not fair.

    Personally, I'm getting pretty pissed off at the whole warranty situation. I'm middle-aged - well, almost, I'm 32 - most on this board would consider me an old man! I have tons of experience in all sorts of vehicles ranging from farm machinery to race bikes. I drive my WRX fast but generally responsibly, and consider it my duty to do what I can to make the car last. I'd like to do a few minor mods (I've already done a couple, but in the VERY minor category) but I understand that Subaru is in a bad spot with people pushing out better than 300 horse, then threatening to sue when Subaru won't cover the beast under warranty. Now I'm fearful that something will need to be fixed under warranty, but instead of it just getting fixed no questions asked I'll have to convince them that I didn't abuse the car like the rest of the WRX owners.

    Just to avoid confusion, only the first paragraph was directed at you, Andrew. The rest is just the rant I've kept bottled up until I got set off this A.M.! Wrong side of the bed and all that .

    Chris
    Last edited by GV27; 09-23-2002 at 08:11 AM.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
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  9. #8
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    As a suggestion to subaru to help them sell cars I would do the following:

    1. Increase drivability by adjusting powerband. Do you know what the lagginess of the system makes me want to do? Keep it up around the 3k area. Yup, I like the power and the awd, but I'm no fan of any kind of lag. For the ammount of hp they are putting out I think they should work on their current exhaust system to see if they can get just a little closer to audi's 1.8T type of response. Based on the commercials I don't see them screaming about how low their emmisions are, so maybe they should take a look at optional up-pipes??

    2. Depending on the powerband a car responds differently to different gearing. So based on the powerband I think they could have tuned it a little better for the US market. We all like driving on the highway because there is less stop and go, not just because it is fast.. so there is a source of annoyance, stop and go, which could be helped with a nicer start off.

    3. Get more and better designers.. c'mon guys, we all kinda like the aggressive look to the wrx, but we know it could be better. Do you know why VW started selling so many cars? Looks baby, the interior is also nice, but I think they were nice even before the newer body styles. Do something about the fenders and the look of that gap. Personally I wish we still had a 2dr, but I understand it is easier to have 1 line than 2 with different requirements.

    4. As for the aftermarket scene, they only have to endorse one brand - *STI*. The trick would be to keep on top of what devices are out there and try to make theirs better and more trick. They don't have to warrant the car, they just have to support the modding.

  10. #9
    Registered User djrez4's Avatar
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    Let me explain to you exactly why Subaru doesn't give customers in the U.S.A. the high performance vehicles that us few enthusiasts desire....

    The majority of Americans are fat and lazy. The National Institue for Diabetes & Digestive & Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) says that 54.9% of American adults (over age 20) are overweight (body mass index > 25). 22.3% of American adults are considered obese(BMI>30). Only 22% of adults get their recommended regular physical activity and about 25% report no physical activity at all (I assume they have monkey butlers to water their plants) (source: NIDDK Website )

    Looking at Japanese statistics...They're qualification for obesity is approximately the same as our qualification for overweight. BMI>26.4 is considered obese (vs our BMI>30). Only 13.9% of Japanese men in their 30's were considered obese in 1997.

    Granted, these statistics don't match up perfectly, but with more than half of American adults over 25 BMI while Japanese men slide in at only 14%....that's significant.

    That being said, why exactly should Subaru bring over what us few enthusiasts want? From January to September of 1998, Subaru sold 105,000 cars in NA. There are about 20,000 I-club members. Assuming 105,000 cars/year from 1995 to this year (totalling 840,000), the whole of i-club is 2% of subaru's total sales in NA for those years. If a company changes its policies for 2% of its customers, that company isn't going to survive long.

    Given the average American consumer (fat and lazy), and the percentage of Subaru drivers that actually modify their cars for added performance (less than 2%), I don't think we'll be seeing any Subaru supported modification community anytime soon.

    And that is why we have eachother I love you guys!

    With so many fat, lazy Americans around
    Deliberating enclaves of like-minded people are often a breeding ground for extreme movements - Cass Sunstein

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    STI will be here soon-and many of the parts will be available even sooner if the corporate types aren't peeing down my leg as usual. Possibly as soon as before year end for the parts.

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    Originally posted by GV27
    I'm quite certain someone at SOA monitors these forums.
    Best forum to go if you want SOA contact is Edmunds Townhall.

  13. #12
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Originally posted by djrez4 Assuming 105,000 cars/year from 1995 to this year (totalling 840,000), the whole of i-club is 2% of subaru's total sales in NA for those years. If a company changes its policies for 2% of its customers, that company isn't going to survive long.

    Given the average American consumer (fat and lazy), and the percentage of Subaru drivers that actually modify their cars for added performance (less than 2%), I don't think we'll be seeing any Subaru supported modification community anytime soon.

    And that is why we have eachother I love you guys!

    With so many fat, lazy Americans around
    Ahh, but they only recently started selling the wrx. If the fat and lazy crowd were fine with slow cars and wide gears then they would never have sent us the wrx.. of course they sent us a neutered one, I think a lot of us don't like indecisive designs. The subaru seems to try to be too many things and ends up wanting more. They should make a WRX be a *WRX* and an RS be an *RS*.

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    Moderator fengshui's Avatar
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    Originally posted by djrez4
    Let me explain to you exactly why Subaru doesn't give customers in the U.S.A. the high performance vehicles that us few enthusiasts desire....

    The majority of Americans are fat and lazy. The National Institue for Diabetes & Digestive & Kidney Diseases (NIDDK) says that 54.9% of American adults (over age 20) are overweight (body mass index > 25). 22.3% of American adults are considered obese(BMI>30). Only 22% of adults get their recommended regular physical activity and about 25% report no physical activity at all (I assume they have monkey butlers to water their plants) (source: NIDDK Website )

    Looking at Japanese statistics...They're qualification for obesity is approximately the same as our qualification for overweight. BMI>26.4 is considered obese (vs our BMI>30). Only 13.9% of Japanese men in their 30's were considered obese in 1997.

    Granted, these statistics don't match up perfectly, but with more than half of American adults over 25 BMI while Japanese men slide in at only 14%....that's significant.

    That being said, why exactly should Subaru bring over what us few enthusiasts want? From January to September of 1998, Subaru sold 105,000 cars in NA. There are about 20,000 I-club members. Assuming 105,000 cars/year from 1995 to this year (totalling 840,000), the whole of i-club is 2% of subaru's total sales in NA for those years. If a company changes its policies for 2% of its customers, that company isn't going to survive long.

    Given the average American consumer (fat and lazy), and the percentage of Subaru drivers that actually modify their cars for added performance (less than 2%), I don't think we'll be seeing any Subaru supported modification community anytime soon.

    And that is why we have eachother I love you guys!

    With so many fat, lazy Americans around
    fat: ok, lazy: yeah no arguments there. But when compared to the neurotic, sexually repressed, twisted and downright strange behaviours exhibited in Japan (plenty of examples, ie not a unjust stereotype), we as americans dont look so bad. add that to a real lack of concern over emissions in Japan, even more restrictive roadways to drive these super cars they have (there arent alot of open roads, especially in their cities), and the dense overpopulation, and you'll realize how great you have it in the states and that while you car maybe have less power, you certainly dont get off stealing your school teacher's panties. or maybe you do!

    -c
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  15. #14
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Retro


    Ahh, but they only recently started selling the wrx. If the fat and lazy crowd were fine with slow cars and wide gears then they would never have sent us the wrx.. of course they sent us a neutered one, I think a lot of us don't like indecisive designs. The subaru seems to try to be too many things and ends up wanting more. They should make a WRX be a *WRX* and an RS be an *RS*.
    Whadda ya mean, neutered? We've got more power than most of the world. A lot of people seem to confuse the limited run specials like the STi and Prodrive models with the regular WRX/Impreza Turbo series. I'm guessing this is what you mean? We didn't get the 280hp to 320hp special models. but we certainly didn't get a "neutered" WRX.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  16. #15
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Neutered meant the wide gear and catted up-pipe. I suspect also they could have done a better job on tuning the engine. I wish they had made available the wrx in 2dr form.

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