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This is a discussion on morning clutch shudder...a solution within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I guess I always think along the lines of power-to-weight rather than just raw power. I guess if you throw ...

  1. #46
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    I guess I always think along the lines of power-to-weight rather than just raw power. I guess if you throw SUVs and large sedans into the mix, maybe the average power goes up, but power-to-weight goes down! Plus torque is the more important number for acceleration, and the WRX has gobs. With the discontinuation of the Camaro/Firebird/Trans Am line, the WRX is just about the quickest car on the market under 40 or 50 grand. The only thing I can think of is the S2000, which is similar in quickness, but with no practicality. HHmmmm....what else? Audi S4 is just a tick slower at 40 grand or so. How much is a Turbo Mr. Two? Mercury Marauder?

    Personally I'd be willing pay more for a WRX with less bells and wistles. No AC, no cruise, manual windows, flimsier interior plastic (flimsy = light!), less soundproofing etc. Trim a couple hundred pounds off of it for a lightweight special.

    Chris
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
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  3. #47
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Did you guys even bother to check out if what I was saying was true? I repeat Average+, what did you think I put the + on there for. Since someone cannot deduce that the + meant just a bit more than average, then I'll spell it out **+ means just a bit more than average in this context**. I think I'm gonna stop reading posts like these because some of you seem to have problems reading and thinking before you act.

    Price range of 20k - 25k

    Nissans ~250hp
    Buick ~200hp
    Chrysler ~230hp
    Dodge ~230hp
    Ford ~260hp
    Honda ~240hp
    Mitsubishi ~200hp
    Oldsmobile ~215hp
    Pontiac ~240hp
    Toyota ~210hp
    VW ~200hp

    Many of these cars have much, much more torque than their hp rating. As mentioned before the AWD is the trick that subaru has at that price, but if you want a nicer awd system and don't mind a little less hp with a lot more niceties then go with the lower end audi, they are not that much more expensive. As for the speed of the wrx, the tranny is where that is at, and the awd is not beefed up properly to handle a lot of hard launches. Check out the 1-2 gear ratios to find out where that speed is comming from.

    I'm done with arguiing with fools, they only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
    Last edited by Retro; 09-12-2002 at 11:08 PM.

  4. #48
    Registered User ScoobySteve's Avatar
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    So to sumarize your last post then, Retro - the WRX is middle of the pack HP (GV27's observation about power: weight ratio counting for nothing, I suppose), it gets it's quickness only due to the low gearing in 1st and 2nd, which then causes the cheesy transmission to fail.

    Hmmm, guess I was beating a lot those brands you listed on the track (where the initial hard launch counts for almost nothing once you start lapping) only by smoke and mirrors then.

    I thought your initial post on this thread had some good points in it, but I think you're getting carried away defending your position here. Of course, I'm just another fool, so what do I know ?
    Old, but not slow.

  5. #49
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Well, since someone actually progressed in the discussion I guess I should actually reply. I never said everyone here was a fool, those lamers know who they are if they ever get around to reading the posts.

    As for power to weight, some of the cars have similar if not better power to weight ratios. The speed of a car is mostly due to gearing, and the accelleration is also mostly due to gearing, to have both you need power. Weight distribution is also very important and the type of engine in the WRX has that down. AWD helps a good driver be better. This topic is not about track times so I'm not going to argue that. Subaru advertises their cars selling points as their excellent powertrain.

    With a car that is supposed to be mechanically proficient, especially in the transmision area you would think they would have fixed the clutch issue or designed a better system a long time ago. As I stated before, I think subaru will continue selling this car with issues that seem to go counter to the build philosophy because they can.
    Last edited by Retro; 09-13-2002 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #50
    Registered User ScoobySteve's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Retro
    I think subaru will continue selling this car with issues that seem to go counter to the build philosophy because they can.
    Well said, Retro. The clutch issue (the whole point of the thread, really) - I guess we can argue that till we're blue in the face without resolution. Most of us don't think it's that huge of a deal -but I suppose it could be better. We'll never really know if, in car's situation, he was making a mountain out of a molehill or if he has suffered the problem to an extreme degree.

    In the general sense, to be sure, it appears that SOA seems more interested in stonewalling and evading payment of warranty claims through whatever technicality than being responsive to their customers.

    I think we all got off course with the HP sidebar. My point was that there's a lot of intangibles which make this car a stellar performer in its price range aside from the cold stats. They tell some of the story, but it is a performance bargain when you look at the total package. But true, that's straying a bit from the clutch issue if we are to keep this thread strictly on topic.
    Last edited by ScoobySteve; 09-13-2002 at 10:32 PM.
    Old, but not slow.

  7. #51
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    Well, I guess I'm a fool, but I don't really care if it only has 5 hp. It's simply the quickest car in its price range and a whole lot more. I suppose numbers on paper are more important though.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  8. #52
    Registered User F1-racer's Avatar
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    Damn! You guys are nutts typin that much.

  9. #53
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Nah, I just type fast. When I'm in the swing of things I will go up to 72 wpmin.

  10. #54
    Registered User Natoforces's Avatar
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    Re: morning clutch shudder...a solution

    Originally posted by car
    I have no mods....

    Took my car in for the shudder, dealer replicated, called subaru, opened a tech case, was told there is no known fix, returned car with shudder.

    Called subaru, and told them about my experience, was told that there is no fix AND that it is normal operating procedure. I replied that the car did not come with shudder, starting happening 3-4 months into mu ownership and had it been normal, why was that fact not disclsoed to me verablly by the delared and why is it not in the manual? Got nothing from them.

    Hung -up and retained a lawyer who took the case with absolutely no cost to me. Says it is a slam friggin dunk. Do not accept this from subaru. We did not buy these cars with problems, they should have none. I am fed up, all I want is a car that workfs as it should, flawlessly.
    Right on! My REX has been doing the same thing; first couple of months perfect, then pretty severe shudder, first early in the morning and now 80% of the time. It's pretty damn frustrating. Let us know how it turns out.

  11. #55
    Registered User SobeWRX's Avatar
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    car hasn't posted anything on this forum for over 2 months now. He didn't seem to take to well to peoples advice to go to another dealership and get his morning clutch shudder problem fixed. My guess is that he is gone for good... i doubt he will be letting your know how his "law suit"( ) turned out...

  12. #56
    Registered User droogie's Avatar
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    I like redwag's post, very funny. This was a long thread, after reading it all I feel I lost some IQ points.
    Both sides of the argument are correct. Customer satisfaction is important and if car isn't happy then Subaru should make a better attempt at trying to fix the problem instead of just saying, nothing you can do, have a nice day. On the other hand, car needs to chill out.

  13. #57
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    Originally posted by GV27
    I'm always amazed by people's reactions to these kinds of things. It embarasses be when I have trouble driving a car correctly - letting the clutch grab, stalling, grinding gears, etc. Its almost always a technique thing, so I adjust my technique to do it right instead of running for a lawyer. Heck, I'd be mortified to stand up in court and say "I want money 'cause I can't get the clutch to engage smoothly and won't make the effort to try to do so".
    In my opinion GV27 was largely responsible for starting this whole flame war by implying that car didn't know how to drive correctly and didn't want to make the effort to learn. Many people seem to have this clutch problem, and some have gotten SOA to fix it, so it is not just caused by bad technique.
    - Mike W.
    03 WRX Wagon--yellow 5-spd
    late 80s Bianchi--red 12-spd

  14. #58
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    LOL Back from the dead!

    I guess I agree that I perpetuated it. But this fool thought he was real smart to start a trivial law suit. And I still maintain that I'd be embarrassed to be in his position. My car has the clutch shudder "issue". It's extremely easy to rectify with technique.
    Last edited by GV27; 11-25-2002 at 08:55 PM.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

    1990 Alfa Romeo Spider Veloce
    1992 Toyota 4Runner SR5 3.Slow
    1993 Honda CBR600F2
    2002 WRX SportWagon *sold*

  15. #59
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    I'm not following why you think it is trivial. He has a problem that some people have gotten SOA to fix. He tried to get his car fixed but was refused. It seems to be a real, fixable, problem, so why should he just accept it instead of making SOA fix it?
    - Mike W.
    03 WRX Wagon--yellow 5-spd
    late 80s Bianchi--red 12-spd

  16. #60
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    Sheesh! I've read this thread and don't understand WHY it has been resurrected? And what shudder problem???? Mine did it a total of twice before I learned....uh oh, better pay attention and DRIVE the car instead of RIDING behind the wheel, it's not that freakin hard people. Oh yes, it has occured a few times since then, because I GOT LAZY. It is NOT a problem with the car, it all boils down to how well you pay attention to your driving habits, notice, I did not say SKILL, I said habits. Big difference. Rock on GV27

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