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This is a discussion on morning clutch shudder...a solution within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Unreal how only the moderators get to voice their insults, either subtly or directly. The moderator started it, not me. ...

  1. #31
    car
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    Unreal how only the moderators get to voice their insults, either subtly or directly. The moderator started it, not me. He is the one who insulted me by stating that I did not know how to drive and that taking my case to the sourts was the wrong thing to do. Who is this guy to tell anyone what is wrong and right. I never let insults like that get away from me. Perhaps he is the one that needs to shape up or ship out. Perhaps you too should have read the thread more closely, then you would have seen that I am reacting to his action. You to are reacting, chill, reread, blame the originator.

    Look, Subaru told me and the dealer there is no fix. Ergo, there is no fix. What do you suggest I do, call Subaru back and state, "hey this moderator on this WRX website said there is a fix, he obvisoulsy knows more than you, here's his web name, you know him right, he's correct, so fix it?" Are you kidding me? Subaru drew the line, I chose to cross it.

    This is not the decl noise, reead the thread, it's the AM shudder.

    In additon, your logic with respect to others having the shudder at 30k and still no more breakdowns is flawed. Just beacuse it ain't broke does not mean that it won't in the future. With respect to the number of peoiple with the problem, What is your sample size? Is it statisically significant? I doubt you know the answer to both questions. The safer bet is to get a new car, not wait and see what will happen.

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  3. #32
    Banned dark_rex's Avatar
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    PUT ON YOUR FLAME SUITS FOLKS

    actually, i will refrain from flaming, just destroying your argument. buckle up. i read the t hread VERY closely, and i think you'll see that once i make some points here.

    Originally posted by car
    Unreal how only the moderators get to voice their insults, either subtly or directly. The moderator started it, not me.
    wow that's mature. are you a teenager pleading your case to the principal or something? please act the adult if you want to particiapte in an adult conversation.

    Originally posted by car
    He is the one who insulted me by stating that I did not know how to drive and that taking my case to the sourts was the wrong thing to do. Who is this guy to tell anyone what is wrong and right. I never let insults like that get away from me. Perhaps he is the one that needs to shape up or ship out. Perhaps you too should have read the thread more closely, then you would have seen that I am reacting to his action. You to are reacting, chill, reread, blame the originator.
    there was no insult. you're being way oversensitive. this isn't i-club, so take your aggressive attitude, and you're sue everyone lawyer stories elsewhere. there was no wrong and right, just a simple suggestion on how to top the shudder. see below for my "insult analysis"

    Originally posted by car
    Listen up moderator, I know how to drive a car and I know how to get around the shudder by revving more, I am not some stupid idiot as you suggest. i DO NOT NEED A LECTURE ON MY ETHICS FROM ANYBODY, EXPECIALLY YOU.
    that's the third post in the whole thread. who started what now? you started "YELLING" in the third post?? and someone else started it? wtf? this is a peaceful place, RELAX DUDE. no where in GV's thread did he insult or comment on your lack of driving skill. he was advising you that a simple adjusment in release of the clutch can cure the symptoms, and that if a driving style sdjustment can cure the problem, it's certainly not going to stand up in court. no flames man. how did you come to the point of yelling?

    Originally posted by car
    Look, Subaru told me and the dealer there is no fix. Ergo, there is no fix. What do you suggest I do, call Subaru back and state, "hey this moderator on this WRX website said there is a fix, he obvisoulsy knows more than you, here's his web name, you know him right, he's correct, so fix it?" Are you kidding me? Subaru drew the line, I chose to cross it.
    SOA told me the same thing. but when i MADE them run the proper tests instructed by SOA, and had them call the service line as they are supposed to right in front of me, they were all enlightned. my car failed the test, three days later, i was driving a 20K mile car with a new clutch. some persistance was all it took, not the immediate "i've been wronged, sue everyone and their sister" attutude. you're wasting taxpayers money. handle it under the warranty. that's what they're for. hell save yourself the headache if anything at all.

    Originally posted by car
    This is not the decl noise, reead the thread, it's the AM shudder.
    its a function of the same defective part. do some research before you open your mouth. lest YOU sound the fool. learn to open your ears to the people here that have heard more than any dealer or SOA even. you're talking to people that have belonged to an organization that ONLY talks about WRX's and reaches thousands of people WORLDWIDE. SOA dreams to know what we know and dicusee. think SOA can tell you the voltage on the fuel pump? ask pace. think SOA knows what size tires will rub? we do. you certainly have much to learn from us, it's a pity you deny yourself that knowledge with your poor attitude and conduct.

    Originally posted by car
    In additon, your logic with respect to others having the shudder at 30k and still no more breakdowns is flawed. Just beacuse it ain't broke does not mean that it won't in the future. With respect to the number of peoiple with the problem, What is your sample size? Is it statisically significant? I doubt you know the answer to both questions. The safer bet is to get a new car, not wait and see what will happen.
    you should take an advanced logic course. you made a big mistake with those Q's. but i will tell you, i love statistics and analysis. so let's play!

    my logic has historical data to back up the theory. yours is based on unfounded rash reactions and generalizations. so already, your analysis is statistically useless, as mine carries mathematical wieght. my population size is about 15% of the original 10,000 units shipped to US shores, and the sample is probably around 50% of that (b/w iclub and the clubwrx) assuming half the country is connected to the web and utilizing it. tha's VERY significant. don't go playing numbers with the resident statistician and analyst, becasue you're fighting a losing battle. in fact, my sample size is so significant, that even the dealerships and SOA were calling it "the sound from the internet" SOA is reluctant to replace a clutch b/c it's a 8hr book job (they say 10 ) and they lost their shirt on lost revenue while fixing your car. they'll jump through flaming hoops to avoid losing money for a manufacturer defect.

    bye.

    dR

  4. #33
    car
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    You began:

    PUT ON YOUR FLAME SUITS FOLKS

    OK, I'm scared.

    Actually, i will refrain from flaming, just destroying your argument. buckle up. i read the t hread VERY closely, and i think you'll see that once i make some points here. (nice capitals, what did you do, read very, very slowly?

    You call your post a destruction? I call it a travesty. You could not flame your way out of a fire chump. You don't make any points, you just make a fool out of yourself. Read on, I'll demonstrate.

    Originally posted by car
    Unreal how only the moderators get to voice their insults, either subtly or directly. The moderator started it, not me.

    The you wrote: wow that's mature. are you a teenager pleading your case to the principal or something? please act the adult if you want to particiapte in an adult conversation.

    What was that? I was simply pointing out that the moderator was the first to start with the insults, not me. this was offered as an explanation as to why I became upset with him/her. Your aboterd attempt at equating me with a child failed mainly because you, again, reacted with your emotions rather than actuall rereading the post with a mature, unbiased eye. I began the thread in an adult manner, the modertaor tchose to take the first punch.

    Originally posted by car
    He is the one who insulted me by stating that I did not know how to drive
    and that taking my case to the sourts was the wrong thing to do. Who is this
    guy to tell anyone what is wrong and right. I never let insults like that get
    away from me. Perhaps he is the one that needs to shape up or ship out.
    Perhaps you too should have read the thread more closely, then you would
    have seen that I am reacting to his action. You to are reacting, chill, reread,
    blame the originator.

    The you wrote: there was no insult. you're being way oversensitive. this isn't i-club, so take your aggressive
    attitude, and you're sue everyone lawyer stories elsewhere. there was no wrong and right, just a
    simple suggestion on how to top the shudder. see below for my "insult analysis"

    There was no wrong and right until the moderator chose to levy his/her opions on my supposed lack of driving skills (of which they have absolutely no knowledge) and my decioson to use the courts in order to protect my rights as a consumer. Yopu really need to learn how to digest what you read!

    Originally posted by car
    Listen up moderator, I know how to drive a car and I know how to get around
    the shudder by revving more, I am not some stupid idiot as you suggest. i DO
    NOT NEED A LECTURE ON MY ETHICS FROM ANYBODY, EXPECIALLY YOU.

    that's the third post in the whole thread. who started what now? you started "YELLING" in the third
    post?? and someone else started it? wtf? this is a peaceful place, RELAX DUDE. no where in GV's
    thread did he insult or comment on your lack of driving skill. he was advising you that a simple
    adjusment in release of the clutch can cure the symptoms, and that if a driving style sdjustment can
    cure the problem, it's certainly not going to stand up in court. no flames man. how did you come to
    the point of yelling?

    That's right. He insulted, i rebutted as fast as my computer would allow. My retort to his subtlty was direct and to the point, I do not pull punches: I deliver them with force.
    I do not need advice on how to drive my car from anyone, expecailly some moderator on a website. What privalege does that afford? Answere, none. And wrong Mr. Lawyer, the car is broken, it is documented on the work order that it is, and Subaru stated there is no knownm fix for that problme on the work order as well. You know what I smell, nothing but net, and my new car.

    Really, if you want to flame, bring it. You might want to consider lighter fluid next time though.

    Originally posted by car
    Look, Subaru told me and the dealer there is no fix. Ergo, there is no fix.
    What do you suggest I do, call Subaru back and state, "hey this moderator
    on this WRX website said there is a fix, he obvisoulsy knows more than you,
    here's his web name, you know him right, he's correct, so fix it?" Are you
    kidding me? Subaru drew the line, I chose to cross it.

    SOA told me the same thing. but when i MADE them run the proper tests instructed by SOA, and had
    them call the service line as they are supposed to right in front of me, they were all enlightned. my
    car failed the test, three days later, i was driving a 20K mile car with a new clutch. some persistance
    was all it took, not the immediate "i've been wronged, sue everyone and their sister" attutude. you're
    wasting taxpayers money. handle it under the warranty. that's what they're for. hell save yourself
    the headache if anything at all.

    I called the customer service line, the dealer called the tech line. I had the customer service people confirm with the tech that there was no fix. I did not just accept anything. I have never sued anyone's sister, slept with quite a few, but never sued. In fact. this will be my first attempt. They are wrong. I am wasting nobody's money. It will never go to court, it's between my lawyer and Subaru. Do you really think this would actually make it to the court system? You cannot be that niave.

    Originally posted by car
    This is not the decl noise, reead the thread, it's the AM shudder.

    its a function of the same defective part. do some research before you open your mouth. lest YOU
    sound the fool. learn to open your ears to the people here that have heard more than any dealer or
    SOA even. you're talking to people that have belonged to an organization that ONLY talks about
    WRX's and reaches thousands of people WORLDWIDE. SOA dreams to know what we know and
    dicusee. think SOA can tell you the voltage on the fuel pump? ask pace. think SOA knows what size
    tires will rub? we do. you certainly have much to learn from us, it's a pity you deny yourself that
    knowledge with your poor attitude and conduct.

    Putting aside the overeinflated ego of yours and this site, I rest my decisions upon what I am told by the compnay from whom I purcahsed the car, not a bunck of people who I dodn't even know and spend time posting on a website. Sure, there is great info here, but in this case, the info I have recieved has been below par. Reread and see how many "opinions" I have gotten; It's normal deal, yeah I got the probelm good luck, there is a fix, then you come up with a whole another fix. If the probelm is related to the decel noise, how come i don' t have decel noise? I could care less about volatge and tire size, rather I do care about my 20K+ pourcahse that does not seem to work as it should. Why is this so hard for you to comprehend? I have never denied myself the prize that is knowlegde, your supposed nuggets of it are worthless however.

    Originally posted by car
    In additon, your logic with respect to others having the shudder at 30k and
    still no more breakdowns is flawed. Just beacuse it ain't broke does not mean
    that it won't in the future. With respect to the number of peoiple with the
    problem, What is your sample size? Is it statisically significant? I doubt you
    know the answer to both questions. The safer bet is to get a new car, not
    wait and see what will happen.




    you should take an advanced logic course. you made a big mistake with those Q's. but i will tell you,
    i love statistics and analysis. so let's play! my logic has historical data to back up the theory. yours is based on unfounded rash reactions and generalizations. so already, your analysis is statistically useless, as mine carries mathematical
    wieght. my population size is about 15% of the original 10,000 units shipped to US shores, and the
    sample is probably around 50% of that (b/w iclub and the clubwrx) assuming half the country is
    connected to the web and utilizing it. tha's VERY significant. don't go playing numbers with the
    resident statistician and analyst, becasue you're fighting a losing battle. in fact, my sample size is so
    significant, that even the dealerships and SOA were calling it "the sound from the internet" SOA is
    reluctant to replace a clutch b/c it's a 8hr book job (they say 10 ) and they lost their shirt on lost
    revenue while fixing your car. they'll jump through flaming hoops to avoid losing money for a
    manufacturer defect.

    Now this is laughable. I bet this is when you got all riled up and excited and were saying to yourself, frig that car, this will show him. This is nothing but trite and unreliable dribble. So, you have personal knowledge of 750 WRXs that have more than 30K on them and have the AM shudder? And of these 750 cars, how many are you sure won't break given your wealth of knowledege dealing with clutch shudder and its realted problems? Rather than the sound from the internet, try the air between your ears.


    Then you wrote: bye.

    Was that supoosed to hurt? shut me up? make me feel like you are the WRX god?

    Bring it.

  5. #34
    Banned dark_rex's Avatar
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    i read it.

    i didn't flame you. i specifically said i wouldn't flame you. but you're right. you're pretty awesome. i "couldn't flame my way our of a fire. "

    phew, that was witty.

    no matter how you slice it "he started it" is juvenile.

    i stand by GV that he didn't insult you, and that you are wearing your heart on your sleeve. either that, or you really like fighting on the web. all he did was reccomend how to stop the problem. how you enterpreted that as an insult is beyond me. but if your feeligns were hurt, go seek counseling. don't rabble about it here.

    QUOTE
    "I do not pull punches: I deliver them with force."

    wow you're a tough internet guy. you're cool. we respect you now.

    you don't have a clue about what you're talking about. "i don't need advice on how to drive" well, apparently you do. you're the only moron here that's suing over the clutch shudder.

    QUOTE
    "You know what I smell, nothing but net, and my new car. "

    listen to yourself striding all over an internet forum. you're a dork

    QUOTE
    "Putting aside the overeinflated ego of yours and this site, I rest my decisions upon what I am told by the compnay from whom I purcahsed the car, not a bunck of people who I dodn't even know and spend time posting on a website"

    by that philosophy, i'd still have a defective clutch, a CEL light on, and a loose center console. my car is fixed, and you're incurring legal fees, or at he least, wasting your time. you call that a good decision? okay. it's your time and money.

    and finally

    QUOTE"
    And of these 750 cars, how many are you sure won't break given your wealth of knowledege dealing with clutch shudder and its realted problems? Rather than the sound from the internet, try the air between your ears."

    what does that last part mean? anyway, i would say "given my wealth of knowledge" NONE have broke down. how many have you heard of? any?

    bring it? you're a loser that likes to fight on the web. enjoy your reply, i might read it, or i might be driving my WRX, which is more than i can say for you're stupid as$

    dR
    Last edited by dark_rex; 09-10-2002 at 03:56 PM.

  6. #35
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    Dang, thanks DR.

    Car: If you look at the list I don't moderate this section.

    I'm not just a moderator at ClubWRX, I'm also a member.

    You're getting way to worked up about an issue that you really don't understand. I actually do know a thing or two about clutches, and why some clutches are "grabby" when cold, causing a shudder. It's actually quite common.

    Your lawsuit is frivolous. You haven't even made a reasonable attempt to work things out - judges really frown on that sort of thing. The clutch functions just fine: it hooks up strong and stays hooked up under the enormous strain caused by mating a high-torque motor to an AWD chassis. It also disengages cleanly, smoothly and completely. You just don't like the way it feels when it engages in certain situations that make up something less than 1% of the total clutch engagements (think about how many times you use the clutch in a day). And for this "defect" that would cost less than $500 to fix, you're asking for total replacement of the car?

    You'll be lucky if the judge doesn't get PO'd and make you pay Subaru's legal fees.
    Last edited by GV27; 09-10-2002 at 01:27 PM.
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

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  7. #36
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    I aint no one special or smart, but I agree with dR. I've read it ALL .

    Car, you're a dork
    ++++++++++++++++++++

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  8. #37
    Registered User ScoobySteve's Avatar
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    car,

    Read this thread:

    http://clubwrx.net/forums/showthread...eferrerid=2663

    A new guy posted asking what we don't like about the WRX. 49 people responded, listing multiple items in most cases. All sorts of things were listed, from thin paint, to the transmission, to the crappy cupholders. NOBODY b*tched about the clutch. Nobody.

    So when I read your post, I'm thinking, "whoa, what's the big deal ?" Evidently GV27 interpreted it the same way and responded. What he said may not be what you wanted to hear, but your thin-skinned and belligerent response was disproportional to what he actually posted.

    Isn't the whole point of starting a new thread to establish some logical discourse on your topic and tap into the collective knowledge of the group ? It's like you had your mind made up from the get-go that you were screwed by Subaru, were gonna sue no matter what and just wanted to vent about it.

    You haven't irritated just the moderators. I'd say you've squandered any sympathy for your case whatsoever. You come off like one of those jerks who sues McDonalds because they spill hot coffee on themselves.
    Old, but not slow.

  9. #38
    Banned dark_rex's Avatar
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    Originally posted by ScoobySteve

    You haven't irritated just the moderators. I'd say you've squandered any sympathy for your case whatsoever. You come off like one of those jerks who sues McDonalds because they spill hot coffee on themselves.

    LOL

    great analogy.

    dR

  10. #39
    Registered User is2scooby's Avatar
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    More like the guy who orders the coffee - and finds out that on it's 3rd sip it's 1.8 degrees farenheit cooler than he would have liked.

    He takes it up to the counter and says "This coffee was implied to be HOT! What's the deal here?"

    The employee politely says that the coffee is the temperature that they serve it at and and there's no problem.

    He takes it back to his table and his friend (a lawyer) recommends that he sue for a new cup of coffee!

    While the rest of the restaurant patrons suggest that he just get the coffee reheated by the kitchen - he says "HECK NO! What if the cup disintegrates 10 minutes from now because of an inherent fault in the original temperature of the coffee? I WANT AN ABSOLUTELY BRAND NEW CUP OF COFFEE, NO DAMN FIXES OR BANDAIDS FOR ME! You guys are blinded by your devotion to the golden arches!"

    Aloha, Richard...
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  11. #40
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    I read the long post.............. peckerhead.

    misrterx
    Last edited by MisterX; 09-10-2002 at 06:02 PM.

  12. #41
    MisterX's Avatar
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    BTW......

    My clutch shudders in the AM. Big F'in deal.

    Otherwise, it grabs real nice. When I want it to.

    misterx

  13. #42
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Dude, you people need to relax more, Moderator included. Did the moderator throw an insult by implying that car needs to learn how to drive? - Yes, don't deny it, you could have asked a bunch of other questions about his dealership experience rather than jumping to conclusions about his driving prowes or sue happy attitude.

    Does someone seem a bit sue happy? - I believe suing for a non safety issue is trivial.. perhaps if the inconvenience made the car unbearable, like, say the tranny connected like a big rig *clunk* *crunk* *whhiiiiiirr*, then yeah, that makes it undriveable.

    Does the clutch shudder indicate a lack of quality engineering by subaru? - Yup, quality does not mean just capability it deals with the more aesthetic attributes as well as the practical.

    Is a 25k car cheap? - depends on how much you make, but considering the last time I checked the average wage of the average american, 25k is not cheap, not a back breaking investment, but not cheap. As such, a not cheap car should not have cheap characteristics, especially when you put up with cheaper looking interior (albeit nice seats) average+ hp for its price range, and not much in the way of extras. Fact is, subaru can get a way with selling this car with it's now obvious lacking, so why shouldn't they make as much as they can?

  14. #43
    Moderator GV27's Avatar
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    average hp for its price range?!?!?
    "Inasmuch as ye have done it to one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it to me." -Jesus

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  15. #44
    Registered User Retro's Avatar
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    Average+ is what I said. A lot of manufacturers have 200hp vehicles already. There are a few that are up to 250hp and although some scoff at American autos, I would not say they are lacking in the power attributes. A lot of these vehicles come with more bells and whistles than the WRX, but the Subie has a trick card in the form of AWD, it somewhat ballances out except for the unrefined feel of that AWD.

  16. #45
    Banned dark_rex's Avatar
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    the wrx is not average power for it's price range. show me some AWD sedans with 217 lbs or torque or better for the money, that propose a siginificant top end to the average. even w/o the AWD.

    dR

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