Subaru dealer told me this re: synthetic oil - Page 3
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This is a discussion on Subaru dealer told me this re: synthetic oil within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by SD_GR Exxon Superflow is essentially the OEM oil for Honda in the United States. OEM Honda oil ...

  1. #31
    Registered User nofear6235's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR
    Exxon Superflow is essentially the OEM oil for Honda in the United States. OEM Honda oil has a label with the manufacturer on it. It is IMO a very competent oil; however, it is not capable of competing with a good synthetic such as M1 in high stress or extended drain situations.
    I have had experience with Exxon Superflow several times and none of them positive.
    Just in 1.500 miles I noticed cars asking for next oil change, since engine loosing it crisp revving and gas consumption going south.
    It doesn't meter that all oils are approved by API, some of them still better then other and give different level of protection and drain intervals.
    Another thing is the price.
    Who can believe that 99 c (sometimes, even 79 c per quart oil) can give a good and long engine protection from all extremes happened in the engine for 2-3k miles.
    If you guys want, just get this oil for one oil change and then drain it out in 2.500 miles, see how it looks, then will talk again.
    As for Honda using Exxon Superflow, hmmm, which one? It can be many different Superflow's, in quality and price (not all of them 99c in conventional store)
    For example:
    Exxon Superflow High Perf.
    Exxon Superflo Supreme
    Exxon Superflow HP

    and some more...

    Hey SD-GR, is it Alen Delon in your avatar?

    Alex

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  3. #32
    Registered User nofear6235's Avatar
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    Mobil makes Honda's OEM 5W30 oil

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    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nofear6235
    I have had experience with Exxon Superflow several times and none of them positive.
    Just in 1.500 miles I noticed cars asking for next oil change, since engine loosing it crisp revving and gas consumption going south.
    Did you do an oil analysis to see what's going on?

    If you guys want, just get this oil for one oil change and then drain it out in 2.500 miles, see how it looks, then will talk again
    Without lab data it's almost impossible to know, but the data I have seen reflects an oil that's at the very least competent for its class (although, like most stuff in its class, it can shear if the conditions are "right," meaning wrong:

    http://theoildrop.server101.com/foru...fpart=all&vc=1

    Still, keeping in mind we're talking about GrII+ conventional oils mostly, it's a solid product I'd say).

    As for Honda using Exxon Superflow, hmmm, which one? It can be many different Superflow's, in quality and price (not all of them 99c in conventional store)
    Good point. Exon and Mobil are the same firm, meaning there are probably dozens of possibilities if one includes spec formulations for the client (though I find it unlikely and suspect it's an off-the-shelf formulation in Honda bottles for a dollar more). Although Honda do not provide specifications that I can find, there has to be an MSDS somewhere. Finding it and comparing it to all the Exon and Mobil products out there would be a chore though.

    To be fair, the most modern and by necessity and definition most advanced oils out there right now are the 5W-20s and 0W-20s IMO. The trend toward thinner oils from makers such as Honda has placed specific demands on oil makers and the formulations they've generated to meet spec are apparently all quite good. It's hard to go wrong with a 5W-20 these days, and that's whay Honda specify for the 3.5L 250HP V6.
    Hey SD-GR, is it Alen Delon in your avatar?

    Alex
    Yes!
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  5. #34
    Registered User nofear6235's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR
    Yes!
    Heh, I knew it, at one time he and J Paul Belmando were my favors, I grow up in Old World

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    Quote Originally Posted by nofear6235
    Heh, I knew it, at one time he and J Paul Belmando were my favors, I grow up in Old World
    Off Topic: They were fabulous in "Borsalino!" Plus, I figure people would rather see his mug on my avatar rather than my own!...

    Back on topic:

    If consumption seems excessive and there is no mechanical issue with the motor, the oil can be changed for another choice that may help. For example, my motor went from 600 ml of M1 10W-30 per drain interval to a bit less when a little 15W-50 was spiked in, to no measureable loss per 5,000 mile drain interval with either M1 5W-40 or 0W-40. I think any of those oils would have done an acceptable job protecting the motor; I chose 0W-40 in the end because it's now hard to find 5W-40 in my area, just for convenience.

    It's getting tougher and tougher to find a bad mainstream oil.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 09-29-2006 at 11:34 AM.
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    Registered User nofear6235's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR
    Did you do an oil analysis to see what's going on?



    Without lab data it's almost impossible to know,
    No personal lab analysis, but only 20 plus years experiance driving all kind of cars, using all kind of oils and also performe work on them.
    Would you feel difference driving car using good and not as good oil, after short period of time after oil change?
    I do, and Exon Superflow for 99 c a quart is not good enough to use, if you care about your car on the long run.
    Alex

  8. #37
    Registered User blarg's Avatar
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    you should mention to them that the OEM Subaru oil that comes in WRX's, and the oil that they put in (at least if they're using what SOA says they should be using) is a synthetic blend.

    I bet the problem is that some people use non API/SAE synthetic oils...oils designed for long-haul diesel motors, or jet engines. Also, these people may be trying to go with 15k mile service intervals, which you can do on synthetic OIL but not on the crappy oil FILTERS that they get at most oil change places. Even if you change your oil every 15k miles (like mobil1 extended says you can) you need a special oil filter to do that. If you try to go 15k miles on a "normal" oil filter your motor will definately have some problems.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blarg
    go f*** yourself

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    Well Quaker state backs their product (Q Advanced Engine) fully synthetic by saying even if you change your own oil they'll replace your engine if its harmed by their oil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nofear6235
    Would you feel difference driving car using good and not as good oil, after short period of time after oil change?
    No. I'd notice quantitative differences from pressure and/or temp, but other than that I'd do an oil analysis if I'm concerned.

    I do, and Exon Superflow for 99 c a quart is not good enough to use, if you care about your car on the long run.
    Alex
    I've just not seen any bad data on it. There are certainly better choices for specific applications though; I use an ACEA A3/MB229.5/BMW Long life spec oil and have gotten very good results, but there are many choices.

    Quote Originally Posted by blarg
    If you try to go 15k miles on a "normal" oil filter your motor will definately have some problems.
    I agree that insolubles in the oil are a problem. When I went 6K on M1 5W-40 Truck/SUV (the data is floating around somewhere in another thread) I noticed that my insolubles were low enough to go out to 7,500 or so, but I think that after that I'd have needed a new filter -- at that point, it's just as well to change the oil on a car (on a big motor with 30 L of oil, the economics are different and one would opt to only change the filter, but our cars take less than 5L so it's much less of a big decision to dump the oil too).

    Quote Originally Posted by 0hp4me
    Well Quaker state backs their product (Q Advanced Engine) fully synthetic by saying even if you change your own oil they'll replace your engine if its harmed by their oil.
    Other firms do this also. I think proving a failure is directly related to the type of oil used is so difficult that the guarantee is more marketing than any sort of realistic assurance for the end user. I think one's best bet is to use the correct viscosity and grade as spec'ed in the manual, document all changes with receipts, and wait out the warranty before deviating from spec.

    I change my own oil and have made several warranty claims. I have receipts for oil, factory filters, and crush washers (between you and me, I also keep the old filters and crush washers, and label the filters with date of installation, date of removal, and mileage at each date, but that's not the sign of a stable person...). I've never had an issue with the dealer saying "no warranty" since everything is well documented. I also use an API oil as SOA specs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blarg
    you should mention to them that the OEM Subaru oil that comes in WRX's, and the oil that they put in (at least if they're using what SOA says they should be using) is a synthetic blend.

    I bet the problem is that some people use non API/SAE synthetic oils...oils designed for long-haul diesel motors, or jet engines. Also, these people may be trying to go with 15k mile service intervals, which you can do on synthetic OIL but not on the crappy oil FILTERS that they get at most oil change places. Even if you change your oil every 15k miles (like mobil1 extended says you can) you need a special oil filter to do that. If you try to go 15k miles on a "normal" oil filter your motor will definately have some problems.

    I suspect this to be the case, or the dealer is just full of it. Both VERY likely possibilities.

    I changed the oil in my WRX at 1,000 with conventional oil and an OEM filter. At 3,000 I changed the oil with M1 and a M1 filter. I am more worried about the crappy gas I have to put in my car thanks to CA laws than the oil I have in there.

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    As always I think SD_GR brings up great points in this thread. Just about any NAME brand current grade oil will serve fine for daily driving.

    Blarg brings up several decent points as well. Just because your oil can go 7k miles I'm sure that filter wont be doing it's job that well at that point. People get this "Slap on and leave it" idea and get carried away.

    AFAIK Valvoline is the oil that Subaru uses for everything in off the truck cars. I have no idea if they are a Syn. Blend for motor oil, but I'd imagine they are. It's getting really hard to fine any name brand oil that isnt a Syn. blend at this point. Even Kendall and Wolf heads are blends now.


    I am with SD_GR on keeping all documents for oil changes (and any other service for that matter). Of course I dont keep old filters/crush washers laying around but I have every receipt so far for filter, oil, crush washer, labor, and tire rotations (since I have them done at oil changes). It's a great habbit to get into and takes a mere 2 mins every 3k miles to do.
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  13. #42
    Registered User sti>evo's Avatar
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    sounds to me like a typical dealership excuse to cover the arses of their crap service dep. NOTE: don't take your car there any longer.
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    A little off topic, but its relevent to oil.
    What is exceptable ammount of oil people loosing between oil changes on new WRX's.
    Lets say 3.500 miles. I am new to this car and noticed that it burns about half quart between the oil change, didn't really drive hard yet.
    Of course its alot less then I am loosing on my Turbo Supra and alot more then 6 cyl 2004Toyota 4Runner.

  15. #44
    Registered User blarg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nofear6235
    A little off topic, but its relevent to oil.
    What is exceptable ammount of oil people loosing between oil changes on new WRX's.
    Lets say 3.500 miles. I am new to this car and noticed that it burns about half quart between the oil change, didn't really drive hard yet.
    Of course its alot less then I am loosing on my Turbo Supra and alot more then 6 cyl 2004Toyota 4Runner.
    my oil consumption over the entire 101k miles of my WRX has been negligible. Even with M1.
    ScoobyDMC #009 - making dirty jokes since before you were making dirty diapers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Blarg
    go f*** yourself

  16. #45
    Registered User nofear6235's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blarg
    my oil consumption over the entire 101k miles of my WRX has been negligible. Even with M1.
    Do you have older 2.0 engine?

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