Oil Change

[SD_GR]

Originally posted by harrydog
The 0w40 oils interest me, but one thing bothers me. How can they obtain a viscosity range this wide without the use of viscosity index improvers? Some 10w30 synthetics use no VI improvers due to the synthetic base stock's natural properties, but I'm quite sure that even the best synthetics must use VI improvers to acheive this viscosity range. Am I wrong about this? If so, please show me where I can find credible information on the subject and not just heresay.
Thanks.

My favourite source for credible information is the "Bob Is the Oil Guy" site, they have posted analyses and a great discussion forum. M1 0W-40, being Mobil's flagship oil, is a frequent conversation piece there. Search their archives and you will find loads of info.

You might also look at the ACEA's official documentation on their various specifications. Currently ACEA A3 oils are the best oils out there, with the exception of specific manufacturer's brews - but even those start life as ACEA A3s in most cases (e.g., MB 229.5 spec, BMW long-life).

*Any* ACEA A3, MB 229.x (where x is 1-5), BMW long-life rated oil will protect your motor very well indeed and oil-related problems will be the least of your worries. The trick is finding one that Subaru accepts under warranty (the silly viscosity chart in the manual) at a reasonable price in the USA.

In any case don't fear the M1 0W-40 for *any* reason other than it's not an approved weight for warranty purposes. That's why I don't use it myself, preferring the M1 10W-30 (ACEA A5 only). Other than that, it's IMO a more robust oil than anything else available over the counter in the USA.

[chris bunch]

here's a source for some (albeit) motorcycle oils, but the mobil oils tested are 15w-50. I think it dispells somewhat the myth that 15w-50 has changed much, but I certainly could be wrong, and will be again and again.

http://www.ibmwr.org/otech/oilreport.html

[sridge]

So SOA doesn't approve of 0W30 or 20w50.... If you have absolute confidence that an oil outside the (recommended) range of oils "approved" by SOA is suitable to your car, USE IT!!!

There is probably not a single oil, commonly available, that will hurt your Subbie. Some are slated for better gas mileage (5W30); some are better for really cold weather starts (0W??) and some are better for racing (20W??) or straight 30 - ??, but there ain't one that will "hurt" your engine. As long as it's a Brand Name and you put the proper amount in and change it and your filter in a reasonable frenquency, your good to go.

Mr. Dealer isn't going to know you put (God forbid!) 20W?? in and you aren't getting the company average fuel economy!! or if your pounding across the desert at 85 mpg in 110+ deg. F heat and your running straight 50 weight...

The stuff you read in the owners manual is probably based on (a). a certain average fuel economy SOA has to meet, (b) Mr. Average American (slow-assed) driver, (c) typical American life style (hockey games, market, pick kids up, go to gym, ect...), and (d) stuff we probably don't know about. I doubt engine longevity (during racing!) is high on the list. If it lasts 100k (average, type (b) driver) that's good enough!!

Just LIE if you blow your engine and this subject comes up at your dealer / warranty and you had "unapproved viscosity" oil in your car. Something other than oil viscosity probably caused the engine to blow.

[SD_GR]

20W-50 is OK by SOA; it's 15W-50 that's not approved.

A dealer *can* find out what you've put in the sump; for one, (s)he'll ask for your receipts, and the weight may be on it. Also, an analysis can confirm/deny whether the oil was an "OK" grade.

It's unlikely, even highly unlikely, that things will come to that, but if they do and you've not got the papers and not followed the book...

Plus, it's not a tremendous idea to lie during any business transaction, even for something as trivial as oil viscosity.

Your point about CAFE requirements, average drivers living average (car) lives, and 100K mile cycles is well taken, and I fully agree with you that an oil-related failure is rare. On the other hand, it's quite difficult to prove a failure was oil-related after the fact; small lubricant companies that don't bother will API spec'ing their oils or cannot meet the API requirements probably rely on this when they give their (worthless) guarantee.

I appreciate your stance and certainly see your point, but I'm still sticking to API SL oils with a weight specifically listed in the book for the remaining 40K of my motor warranty period, with receipts and used oil filters dated and stashed (I even stash used crush washers, but that's just me...). Better safe...

[sridge]

Actually I probably lied because you can screw up an engine by the WRONG viscosity at the wrong time....but it's not a common occurance..and the operator has to screw to more than once...rev it ICE COLD with cold ,thick oil; rev it HOT with low, thin oil; run it with LOW oil ect.......

The safest approach is exacty what you are doing...I just question what the factory puts in the owners manual and the basis of what it is based on. I think it might be other than what we are looking for.... longevity, reliability, endurance, performance...I think they are looking at GAS MILEAGE, emmisions, and other stuff we don't care too much about.

Where are you living? SD_GR???

I'm in NH close to ME.

[SD_GR]

California, where it was 40 C three days ago! Like yours, my manual says 5W-30 is preferred. By whom, and for what, remains a mystery to me - it *is* most likely fuel economy corporate standard stuff like you suspect. So we're certainly in agreement on that.

Consider that in the EU, the same motor in the same car uses 5W-40. So, I can be in Scotland in the dead of winter and use a 40 weight oil, but I have to use a thinner oil in a much hotter climate. I agree SOA does not have longevity or "us" in mind when they bless some viscosities in the manual and leave others out.

I know of people that use 60W or *higher* oil in very warm climates, and in fact even SOA says 10W-50 is OK. Clearly, a thick 50W in New England in winter is not the greatest for motor life, but it'd probably work nicely in Death Valley.

I kinda wish they'd put a 5W-40 in there, I could run Motul or Mobil Delvac 1 in that weight.

[WRB farmer]

How could you guys do oil change without jack the car up?

I tried to 'slide' under my car last night (I have a 100% stock rex)
it's impossible to slide my head under the bumper!!!

Could you please teach me the trick to do oil change without lifting the car?

Thanks.

[SD_GR]

I am 1,85 m tall and weigh over 100 kg, and never had a problem fitting under the bumper to change oil. No trick involved, just lie down in fro nt of the car and you can reach everything with your arms.

[WRB farmer]

huh? I can't even slide myself under the bumper. (Is my head TOO big..?!?! )

let me measure the height of my bumper tonight and get back to you guys again tomorrow.... hm... mine is 100% stock car.. why would this happen to me.

[SD_GR]

Lie on the ground on your back, with the length of your body normal to the car. Reach under the bumper with your arms to grasp the filter and drain plug.

My car is stock ride height also. I can see a large person having problems with a lowered car, but otherwise you should be clear.

[WRB farmer]

sorry that if my questions are soooo dumb. I'm just a newbie of car. This is my first attempt to do something for my car. so, please bear with me

does that mean your head doesn't really actually go under the bumper? Like the pic below? (of course, -------O <-this is the head)

| Bumper
myself |______
--------O

I found that there is no way to slide my head under the bumper, even if I could do that, I guess I could kiss the oil pan or whatever. There is no space for me to turn my head.

[WRB farmer]

sorry.... the head of the pic above should be right IN FRONT OF the bumper, NOT under the bumper.

[SD_GR]

You don't have to slide your head under the bumper, but it certainly doesn't hurt. Try lying down on your back in front of the car with your head on its side -- you ought to see the drain bolt and if you look forward and toward the passenger wheel of that, you'll see the filter hanging there.

[WRB farmer]

alrighty... let me try again tonight. will keep you posted.

Thanks for your input!!!

[rallymaniac]

do you guys know that in europe they put only syntetics and typical oil change is every 15k km? In this case when you put synt oil it should be around 7500miles between changes. I do it on my Neon using M1 10W30 and everything works fine. I was wondering did any of you try it?