Am I getting scammed?
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This is a discussion on Am I getting scammed? within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Check engine light came on the other day and I took it to the dealership and they said that the ...

  1. #1
    Registered User timmay2215's Avatar
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    Question Am I getting scammed?

    Check engine light came on the other day and I took it to the dealership and they said that the motors on the intake manifold had gone bad and it was going to cost me $1700 to repair it. The guy said the parts alone are $900. I was just wondering if I am totally getting scammed by this dude or if it is the real deal. My buddy is an Audi mechanic and said he could do the work for way cheaper at his Audi dealership but to just have the parts ordered and bring it to him. Just trying to get some comments or feedback on this stuff. Thanks.

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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    the motors on the intake manifold??

    Elaborate...

    Also, what's the CEL code?
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    Registered User blackzwrx's Avatar
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    TGV's??? If so that does sound about right. 900 bucks for OEM parts, that sell for around $600 in the aftermarket. Plus it's a time consuming repair. That leaves about 800 bucks for labor, that's about 9hrs. So yes it sounds about right. You should look up on how to delete them, that will give you some preformance out of it. Then get a tactrix cable, head towards stage2 and keeps that cel from coming on with enginuity. Plus you will have learned a ton about your car, give yourself some self satification, and save 1600 bucks. That sound like a great plan to me, and would be what I would do if I were you, and didn't work as an auto tech. like me.


    Search around tactrix cable is a great 100 dollar investement, plus the almost endless tuning options that you will have afterwards.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackzwrx View Post
    TGV's??? If so that does sound about right. 900 bucks for OEM parts, that sell for around $600 in the aftermarket. Plus it's a time consuming repair. That leaves about 800 bucks for labor, that's about 9hrs. So yes it sounds about right. You should look up on how to delete them, that will give you some preformance out of it. Then get a tactrix cable, head towards stage2 and keeps that cel from coming on with enginuity. Plus you will have learned a ton about your car, give yourself some self satification, and save 1600 bucks. That sound like a great plan to me, and would be what I would do if I were you, and didn't work as an auto tech. like me.


    Search around tactrix cable is a great 100 dollar investement, plus the almost endless tuning options that you will have afterwards.
    TGVs... That's what I was wondering too...

    From my understanding.. TGVs are to help w/ cold starts.. I see you're in Indiana. If you have cold winters there, you may want to reconsider TGV deletes. Otherwise that's a great idea blackz
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    Yeah sounds like TGV'S to me...I have no idea how much they'd cost to replace but I'd look into just removing them.
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sinister View Post
    TGVs... That's what I was wondering too...

    From my understanding.. TGVs are to help w/ cold starts.. I see you're in Indiana. If you have cold winters there, you may want to reconsider TGV deletes. Otherwise that's a great idea blackz
    I just read up on them... and it looks like Tumble Generator Valves (TGVs) are designed to improve emissions on cold starts, and that's it.
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    Registered User blackzwrx's Avatar
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    You^^^^^ beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. Most extra parts on engines now a days, are for emissions only, and that really sux.


    Get them out of there! Get Tactrix and have fun modding. Then join the modders support group when you spend thousands on your car fixing whats not broke!
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    UnBanned Sinister's Avatar
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    Damn things aren't even on EUDM or JDM wrxs... It said something on this site that subaru wasn't going to use them on throttle by wire engines. Did that end up happening? or does the 05+ STi and 06+ WRX have them still?
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    Registered User timmay2215's Avatar
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    Thanks for the feedback, I guess I have some decisions to make deciding to keep these things or not. I did some research about them online and they seem like pretty stupid things to be spending that much money on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by timmay2215 View Post
    Thanks for the feedback, I guess I have some decisions to make deciding to keep these things or not. I did some research about them online and they seem like pretty stupid things to be spending that much money on.
    i would like to know the code you set..and why the tgv's are bad?i have yet to see a code set for tgv's and ive been working in subaru dealers in 8 years..also how does your car start when its a cold start...hows it idle at the first start of the day or after its been sitting for a while...
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackzwrx View Post
    You^^^^^ beat me to it. I was going to say the same thing. Most extra parts on engines now a days, are for emissions only, and that really sux.


    Get them out of there! Get Tactrix and have fun modding. Then join the modders support group when you spend thousands on your car fixing whats not broke!
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    Registered User timmay2215's Avatar
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    I could tell that there was def a problem for about the last week or so from the way the car was driving. After a shift it would seem as if something was pushing on the car and really slowing it down (the valves not reopening). The dealer said that the motors burnt out bc of carbon build up on the valves that in turn made them stick. This sticking then caused the motors to burn out from fighting to open and close the suckers. Don't really know what to do bc the dealer said removing these things would cause the car to run horribly. Then in turn, I ask myself what to really believe from these guys (pretty much why I am here on this site). I guess these TGV's have been a problem in WRX engines and Subaru made a new part to fix the problems (what I am supposed to be getting).

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    If there is more than just 1 subaru dealer in your area i would try that one too. Let both dealers do the diagnosis. Then regroup and rethink your options. I can tell you its really hard for someone to diagnose these problems over the internet.

    So here is my un-professional advice. Try to take it to another subaru dealer. See if you can test drive with a technician or the shop foreman. Dealerships know whats best for your car. If they dont. then they are in developement of a better procedure. I would think if these valves triggered a check engine light, it would be fairly easy to diagnose the problem.

    Thats what i would do. As a matter of fact, it would be the best thing to do IMO. Your talking to someone who works for a dealer. and we have problems like this come in ALL the time. I understand your concern in getting ripped off or told wrong. But that dealer will offer you a garentee for the repairs that were made. There will always be that one technician or service advisor STARVING for tech pay time. But like i said. With Dealership repairs comes garentees, warrentys, etc.

    Go back to the dealership get it fixed. or go to a different one and see what they say.

    (PS Dont be afraid to ask your advisor or Service manager questions.)
    Last edited by tHA_rEX; 07-14-2007 at 12:20 PM. Reason: PS

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    Registered User dcpatters's Avatar
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    If it is indeed your TGV's, there are plenty of folks selling their factory ones.

    That is, if you want to replace them with stock pieces.

    You may want to ask around about other members about possibly assisting with the job. A little money thrown their way could go a long way in getting help. In any case, once you have 100% proof it's the TGV's, steer clear of the dealership doing it for you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by timmay2215 View Post
    I could tell that there was def a problem for about the last week or so from the way the car was driving. After a shift it would seem as if something was pushing on the car and really slowing it down (the valves not reopening). The dealer said that the motors burnt out bc of carbon build up on the valves that in turn made them stick. This sticking then caused the motors to burn out from fighting to open and close the suckers. Don't really know what to do bc the dealer said removing these things would cause the car to run horribly. Then in turn, I ask myself what to really believe from these guys (pretty much why I am here on this site). I guess these TGV's have been a problem in WRX engines and Subaru made a new part to fix the problems (what I am supposed to be getting).
    if you could give me the code i could be alot more helpfull.....but i will say DONT remove them..if you want to upgrade

    http://slowboyracing.com/estore/prod...at=1487&page=1

    then go there..thats your best choice...im not sure exactly what you would have to do with EM but you would have to do something...

    heres how the system works.it more detailed thenjust a TGV's

    theres a tumble generator valve at each intake runner.the system uses a shaft for each side of the engine that is driven by a stepper motor.the movement of the shaft is monitored by a sensor on the oppisate end...
    the shaft operates the tumble generator valve,which is a plate similar in design to the throttle plate..at idle the plate is closed(depending on coolant temp and time from engine start..off idle the plate is open..when the plate is closed the main air passage is blocked..this forces all air necessary for engine operation during idle to flow through the bypass channel.this helps to mix the air fuel mixture by producing a tumbling effect to the incomming air ..there is no air assist in the injectors which means without this tumbling effect idle is poor to stall.....

    with that being said thats why i would like to know your code..if your motor is in fact bad then it is stuck open..you would not be going anywhere...when you gassed it your car would flood...the chances of them being stuck open are pretty slim..im willing to bet its more likelythe posistion sensor...but if you gave me a code i could lead you in a better direction...
    New England F4

    feel free to pm me with any questions..

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