Oil TSB for 2006+ Subarus - Page 3
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This is a discussion on Oil TSB for 2006+ Subarus within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Mobil 1 is fine. Thinking you won't need to change your oil until 5000 miles is absurd. Any more than ...

  1. #31
    Registered User Destros's Avatar
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    Mobil 1 is fine. Thinking you won't need to change your oil until 5000 miles is absurd. Any more than around 3000 is taking a chance. Yes, some of the synthetic oils used today can last sometimes up to 5000, 10000, 15000 miles. BUT, there is NO oil filter that is any sort of effective after 3500-4000. Anytime cars come in on their scheduled 5000 mile or more oil change, there is little oil left, it has the consistency of water, is blacker than dirty diesel oil, and the filters are literally falling apart. Just thought I should share that. You want black water lubricating that engine and awesome turbo of yours?
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  3. #32
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Destros View Post
    BUT, there is NO oil filter that is any sort of effective after 3500-4000. Anytime cars come in on their scheduled 5000 mile or more oil change, there is little oil left, it has the consistency of water, is blacker than dirty diesel oil, and the filters are literally falling apart. Just thought I should share that. You want black water lubricating that engine and awesome turbo of yours?
    Abundant data have established that the service life of an OEM filter in a vehicle with OEM air filtration comfortably exceeds the oil change interval. For example, at 5800 mi with correct intake and M1 5W-40 the measured particulates were well below max, meaning my car could have easily done 7500++. I have seen no analyses showing excess particulates where the oil filter was inadequate; that's not saying the data are not there, but rather that if they are then I have not run across them. If the OEM filters are failing SOA needs to know; they have recalled batches in the past.

    EDIT: Checked my oil filter collection tonight. I've kept all the oil filters used on my car since early 2003. I estimate that ten or so of those filters have seen more than 5,000 miles (I'm not counting the ones where the oil change was done at less, even if it's a few miles less, and I'm not digging in that one messy drawer in the garage -- everyone must have one -- but only looking in the shoe box with the main stash of used filters). I've not recorded any issues with the filters in my notes either. I do know some xxx100 units leaked, but they were recalled.
    Last edited by SD_GR; 03-09-2008 at 10:21 PM.
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  4. #33
    Registered User Destros's Avatar
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    Very interesting. Well, not to be Subaru specific, my experience with most vehicles over 3500-4000k have oil properties as I listed prior. And filters, especially cartridge type (i.e. Mercedes, BMW, Volvo) disintegrate and have actually clogged oil passageways, galleys, or caused physical damage to the housing. I've changed motors on two BMWs with 15000k oil change intervals due to lockup and sludge. And I'm sure BMW has lots of data on oil life too. But, it still happened. Low level ozone and atmosphere conditions also play a large part in shortening the effectiveness of oil as well.
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  5. #34
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    It's interesting you mentioned BMW. Do you know if the oil used in the motors you had to replace met BMW Long Life specs? LL-01 would be something like M1 0W-40 or Valvoline Synpower 5W-40, and I know of no LL-04 oils sold in the US (but I'd love to hear of any and even try them in one of my non-BMW cars).

    Since modern BMWs do (and should) require relatively extended oil change intervals I wonder if the failures were due to the owner, the dealer, or both following the interval requirement but failing to follow the oil specification requirement. I say this since you mentioned sludge specifically.

    The Subaru motor seems to be relatively easier on oil than famous "hard" motors like some Toyotas with cam train designs that were "ideal" for beating up oils and causing sludge, and I've not heard of sludge on our motors. I have heard of clocked galleys due to a bad filter, but it was not mileage-related as far as I remember and it was also not an OEM filter).

    Are the cartridge-type filters you've seen fail made by Mann or?
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  6. #35
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    It's interesting you mentioned BMW. Do you know if the oil used in the motors you had to replace met BMW Long Life specs? LL-01 would be something like M1 0W-40 or Valvoline Synpower 5W-40, and I know of no LL-04 oils sold in the US (but I'd love to hear of any and even try them in one of my non-BMW cars).

    Since modern BMWs do (and should) require relatively extended oil change intervals I wonder if the failures were due to the owner, the dealer, or both following the interval requirement but failing to follow the oil specification requirement. I say this since you mentioned sludge specifically.

    The Subaru motor seems to be relatively easier on oil than famous "hard" motors like some Toyotas with cam train designs that were "ideal" for beating up oils and causing sludge, and I've not heard of sludge on our motors. I have heard of clocked galleys due to a bad filter, but it was not mileage-related as far as I remember and it was also not an OEM filter).

    Are the cartridge-type filters you've seen fail made by Mann or?
    I owned a 2005 MCS (built and owned by BMW) with a cartridge type oil filter and 15,000 mile service interval. Factory oil was made for BMW by (said on bottle) and oil cap stated required Castrol Syntech 5w30. Personally I liked the cartridge type oil filters in that there was no "smoke and mirrors". You weren't getting a candy coated pretty pile of crap, all that was in the box was the element and an o ring. Servicing was easier, there was no cutting of the can necessary, you could see exactly what was being filtered.

    I actual prefer that type of filter. I never experienced "sludging" or "blockage", but then again my OCD mandated 7500 mile service intervals instead of 15,000.
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  7. #36
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    OT but I can't resist mentioning the toilet-paper-roll-as-oil-filter movement. The ultimate in canister filtration?! Certainly the cheapest!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    It's interesting you mentioned BMW. Do you know if the oil used in the motors you had to replace met BMW Long Life specs? LL-01 would be something like M1 0W-40 or Valvoline Synpower 5W-40, and I know of no LL-04 oils sold in the US (but I'd love to hear of any and even try them in one of my non-BMW cars).

    Since modern BMWs do (and should) require relatively extended oil change intervals I wonder if the failures were due to the owner, the dealer, or both following the interval requirement but failing to follow the oil specification requirement. I say this since you mentioned sludge specifically.

    The Subaru motor seems to be relatively easier on oil than famous "hard" motors like some Toyotas with cam train designs that were "ideal" for beating up oils and causing sludge, and I've not heard of sludge on our motors. I have heard of clocked galleys due to a bad filter, but it was not mileage-related as far as I remember and it was also not an OEM filter).

    Are the cartridge-type filters you've seen fail made by Mann or?
    Hey SD_GR, I'm running to my car to check the spare quart of oil, but I'm 95&#37; sure that Castrol's Syntec 0W30(european formula, made in germany) is the only oil to meet BMW's long life standards. Its about the same cost of mobil 1 10W30 here in so cal, about $6.37 per quart. I'll go double check right now.

    EDIT: OK, its Castol Syntec 0W30 European Formula, Made in Germany.
    its an API-SL/SJ/CF. ISLAC GF-3/GF-2
    Exceeds: ACEA A3, B3, B4
    MB 229.1/229.3/229.5
    BMW Longlife-01
    VW 502 00, 505 00, 503 01

    This is the second time I've put the Castrol 0W30 in my car, and I love it. Its more like a 40 weight once its hot. My friend who has a '99 Camaro uses it in his car which as about 135k on the LS-1 that powers his Z28. I like it cause it can get pretty hot here in So Cal in the summer. My friend who told me about it, and uses it in his Z28 does a bunch of research and forum searching said its probably the best oil on the market. He based this off of info he gathered from the Bob is the Oil Guy forums, and test results from Blackstone.

    During my last OCI, my N/A '06 2.5i took only one quart in about 5k. It'll be interesting to monitor the consumption level during this OCI cause its the second time I'm using the Castrol 0W30, and I read on here that the first time you switch a brand of oil it can eat more(burn more) than normal cause the new oil needs to "seat". I'll keep you guys posted.
    Last edited by mikeyphotog; 03-11-2008 at 12:05 PM.

  9. #38
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    Yes I hear very good things about the imported Castrol and as you said it's BMW LL-01.

    Potentially interesting oil "news" many arrive with the BMW 325d. This is a turbodiesel 3-series and will be sold in all states, implying there will be an oil that will be required for it that should be LL-04 or better (?).

    Is your Castrol green in colour (at least initially)? It's harder to find in my area than M1 0W-40 (incidentally another BMW LL-01 oil) so I just go with M1 -- but I'd not hesitate to use the Castrol either.

    In general if something is BMW LL-0x, MB 229.x, VW 50x.x or ACEA A3 it's IMO very reassuring.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    Yes I hear very good things about the imported Castrol and as you said it's BMW LL-01.

    Potentially interesting oil "news" many arrive with the BMW 325d. This is a turbodiesel 3-series and will be sold in all states, implying there will be an oil that will be required for it that should be LL-04 or better (?).

    Is your Castrol green in colour (at least initially)? It's harder to find in my area than M1 0W-40 (incidentally another BMW LL-01 oil) so I just go with M1 -- but I'd not hesitate to use the Castrol either.

    In general if something is BMW LL-0x, MB 229.x, VW 50x.x or ACEA A3 it's IMO very reassuring.

    Its kinda green, not like antifreeze though. My buddy said it used to be way green.

    Ya, even though its not a ISLAC GF-4 or API-SM, I'm not worried, just wont tell my subaru dealer.

    BMW is comin out with a turbodiesel 325? I know you said all states, but really in cali? When I heard about Suby's turbodiesel I've been dreamin about one since. Specially not having to give up the all wheel drive. And I hate the prisus/other hybrids cause they do nothing to deal with the whole gasoline is a limited resource thing.

  11. #40
    Resident meany-rator 06wrx4me's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyphotog View Post
    Its kinda green, not like antifreeze though. My buddy said it used to be way green.

    Ya, even though its not a ISLAC GF-4 or API-SM, I'm not worried, just wont tell my subaru dealer.

    BMW is comin out with a turbodiesel 325? I know you said all states, but really in cali? When I heard about Suby's turbodiesel I've been dreamin about one since. Specially not having to give up the all wheel drive. And I hate the prisus/other hybrids cause they do nothing to deal with the whole gasoline is a limited resource thing.
    I drove a BMW 330D about 18 months ago at a diesel technology conference. WOW is all I have to say. I had a from ear to ear. M series drivetrain in a 330 with a 370 HP 370 TQ TDI that averaged with a ton of abuse and burnouts 36 MPG city. If diesel wasn't so damned expensive..................
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    I didn't even drive one, but from what I've read...WOW.

    Even the 325d, which has 200hp, and closer to 300ft/lbs of torque.
    Ya theres the fact that depending on where you are, you could pay close to $4.00/gal for diesel. But the options to bio/veggie diesel are endless! The diesel motor was originally designed to run off of soybean oil.(not BMW's, the first diesel ever built, over 100yrs ago or so.) How nice would it be to pull up to a red light next to a prius, with the driver being so self satisfied and smug just cause they have a hybrid and you smoke them off the line and they smell not the classic oil burning diesel smell, but the smell of donuts cause you just filled up behind your local donut shop...

    Sorry for kinda hijacking this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SD_GR View Post
    It's interesting you mentioned BMW. Do you know if the oil used in the motors you had to replace met BMW Long Life specs? LL-01 would be something like M1 0W-40 or Valvoline Synpower 5W-40, and I know of no LL-04 oils sold in the US (but I'd love to hear of any and even try them in one of my non-BMW cars).
    I found one while searching the net.

    Amsoil European Car Formula 5W40(AFL)
    Its API-SM, and BMW LL-04 as well as Benz's requirements and VW's.
    $8.00/quart + shipping off the Amsoil website.

  14. #43
    He simply abides. SD_GR's Avatar
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    Is it though? Consider the wording:

    It is recommended for European and North American gasoline or diesel vehicles requiring any of the following worldwide specifications...

    There's no API symbol on the pictured container. I have no reason to doubt their claim that this is a suitable oil, but I'd not use it for warranty purposes as they may not have actually gone through the process of getting the API rating (I'd consider it after warranty, and I believe a member here uses it in AZ in his WRX if memory serves).

    Good find, thanks for looking into this!
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    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
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    Got a question regarding the oil discussion in this thread.

    My understanding is that full synthetic oil has a longer recommended life cycle than regular motor oil.

    If this is actually the case why would Subaru's recommended change out interval for turbo engines be the same?

    Another question along the same lines.

    The fleet manager where I work changes the filter every 2500 miles and the conventional oil at 5000 mile intervals. In effect, the filter gets replaced twice as often as the oil. We have a fleet of Ford and Dodge turbodiesel pickups, many of which have in excess of 500,000 miles before getting pulled out of service. In most cases the reason they get pulled is due to a major malfunction that makes it cheaper to look at a replacement. Electrical, wreck, body falling apart, etc. This leads me to think that changing the filter is more important than changing the oil.

    Any comment or enlightnment?

  16. #45
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    Subaru specify a fleet-wide oil change interval that must cover vehicles sold and used in different environments and under different conditions. Since they do not specify the oil -- just the oil grade -- they also have to account for differing performances from all sorts of products any user might buy and throw in the motor.

    What % insolubles has the fleet manager measured that lead him/her to change filters so soon? Do these vehicles all have fully functional intake air filtration (I ask because if the filter needs changing at 2,500 the logical answer is "no")? What is their sump capacity? How was the change interval mileage decided -- by TBN after repeated test sampling? What oil? By replacing the filter, the oil additives are somewhat replenished by the top-up oil. It still sounds very cautious; that's why I'm wondering what the analysis samples showed.

    In our cars insolubles tend to be quite low provided the owner has not wrecked the air filtration system (read: installed a CAI or some sort of aftermarket intake tube).
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    The world breaks everyone and afterward many are strong in the broken places. Ernest Hemingway
    I lied. I cheated. I bribed men to cover the crimes of other men. I am an accessory to murder. But the most damning thing of all... I think I can live with it. And if I had to do it all over again - I would. Benjamin Sisko
    DISCLAIMER: Opinions expressed are the author's alone and are inherently worthless.

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