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This is a discussion on subura warranty a joke within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by Trainrex Same here. If you want to talk to me like a human being, I'll bend over ...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    Same here.

    If you want to talk to me like a human being, I'll bend over backwards to help. If you want to call up and take out your frustrations and treat me like dirt, you will get nowhere.

    The customer isn't always right. Too many people have it in there head that they can make outrageous demands and treat you like dirt in the process. I reserve the right to refuse any customer. My time is better spent dealing with someone who is a worthwhile realistic customer.

    On the other side of the coin, if I find myself dealing with a company that doesn't seem to care, I won't challenge them, or argue. I'll just take my business elsewhere. If I experienced problems with 2 dealerships, and felt it was their fault, I would simply sell the car and take my business to a company that appreciates it.

    Well "spoken"
    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Hey, being the forum car ADD guy is better than being the forum OG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Well nobody cares what you think, Seth

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  3. #62
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    I never cussed, nor called anyone names. I did argue about the logic of the dealership service claiming abuse on an O2 sensor. I did mention that when they PDI'd my STi, they left bags on the suspension, and never aligned it. I brought up every problem I've had with Burt Subaru since I first bought the car. I didn't yell, and don't when I'm trying to make a point. However, I can be very condescending when they throw around "abuse" but make no explanation for how they came to that conclusion.

    I took my arguments up with SOA. That was a very bad mistake. Trying to convince them I was in the right was like being a prisoner trying to convince the warden that the guards are abusive. So I dropped it. I was in for a nasty surprise when I took my wife's car (not even the same car) to John Elway West and they denied warranty service. I asked why, and they said "it's a TSB, not a recall", and asked for an insane amount of money to fix a rubber tube that was faulty, by their admittance, by design. I didn't argue at all with Elway. One trip into this insanity was enough for me.

    I don't think asking for faulty parts to be replaced at no expense is outrageous. I probably seem hysterical to anyone involved, because my experiences are too rediculous to imagine. I don't consider that a good reason to deny warranty service. I guess they do.

    The first 5 or 6 times I tried to deal with Burt Subaru, I was mad, but tried my best to be cordial. Obviously it wasn't good enough. Survey scores mean nothing to one of the largest Subaru markets in the country. Most people never take their car to be serviced, much less get warranty service. Of course they will put 9 out of 10 on a survey.

    So the dealership can deny service if they feel like a customer treated them poorly, but a customer that is treated poorly can go to another dealership, and get treated poorly again. Sadly, I can't afford to sell both cars and start over with another company that may or may not treat customers like crap. After all, the lack of law applies to all the dealerships and car companies, not just Subaru. I am able to do all work myself, and do my best to not purchase anything through Subaru, unless totally necessary.

    I appreciate being able to come here and share my experiences with the OP, if for no other reason that to help him feel better that it could be worse. I'm not looking for a pound of flesh, or even any resolution to these problems. I gave up years ago. I didn't expect such an outpouring of blind faith in dealerships, nor an instant guilty verdict of the OP and myself that it can't be them so it must be us. Actually, yes I did, and it was fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVVV View Post
    I appreciate being able to come here and share my experiences with the OP, if for no other reason that to help him feel better that it could be worse. I'm not looking for a pound of flesh, or even any resolution to these problems. I gave up years ago. I didn't expect such an outpouring of blind faith in dealerships, nor an instant guilty verdict of the OP and myself that it can't be them so it must be us. Actually, yes I did, and it was fun.
    A guy here at work bought an outback and he drives like a grandma, (hes not a performnace enthusiast at all.) He always has the dealership due the recommended services etc. Anyways the head gaskets went bad at 1k past the waranty. He did some research and found that this was a common problem and was a tech bulletin and not a recall. I.e. the customer has to pay. So he paid something like $1200 to have the work done. He went to SOA to get compensatewd and met with closed doors.

    At this point I woulda gave up, but he kept writing letters and emails (picture Shawshank redemption) until finally he got it in writing that they were gonna pay. Finally he took the issue up with President of SOJ's office. He let them know he felt like SOA was treating him unjustly etc etc. The office tech told him to write a letter. He wrote like a 5 page letter and submitted it with a bill. About 2 months later he got a letter back with a check for $790 to cover parts, and a formal apology.

    Surprised the **** out of me because I was in his face playing devils advocate all the time.


    BTW this was a 6 month process.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trainrex View Post
    Same here.

    If you want to talk to me like a human being, I'll bend over backwards to help. If you want to call up and take out your frustrations and treat me like dirt, you will get nowhere.

    The customer isn't always right. Too many people have it in there head that they can make outrageous demands and treat you like dirt in the process. I reserve the right to refuse any customer. My time is better spent dealing with someone who is a worthwhile realistic customer.

    On the other side of the coin, if I find myself dealing with a company that doesn't seem to care, I won't challenge them, or argue. I'll just take my business elsewhere. If I experienced problems with 2 dealerships, and felt it was their fault, I would simply sell the car and take my business to a company that appreciates it.
    Exactly.

    I had a guy that didnt buy his car with us and never came in for anything, come in with issue that 3 of my techs could not duplicate after 3-4 hours or more. I sincerely apologized to the guy that I cant fix his new car because I dont know what to fix as the concern isnt duplicated. I told him if it persists and he has it happen again, to bring it in right away and I will look at it.

    He got very rude and beligerent and told me I will order whatever parts needed to make the warranty repair, I will make sure they are there and to call him. I told him, I cant just order warranty parts and just throw them on without finding the cause because that will create Lemon Law issues being we havent verified the cause and repair. Again, he stated he will not come in to diagnose the issue and I will have to order all and any parts that might be needed and to call him. Needless to say its been over a month and I havent ordered a thing nor called him back. If he treated me like a person and not barked at me telling me what I will do, he might have been taken care of. I have warrantied repairs, that other dealerships wouldnt because the customer was a good customer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfang View Post
    Exactly.

    I had a guy that didnt buy his car with us and never came in for anything, come in with issue that 3 of my techs could not duplicate after 3-4 hours or more. I sincerely apologized to the guy that I cant fix his new car because I dont know what to fix as the concern isnt duplicated. I told him if it persists and he has it happen again, to bring it in right away and I will look at it.

    He got very rude and beligerent and told me I will order whatever parts needed to make the warranty repair, I will make sure they are there and to call him. I told him, I cant just order warranty parts and just throw them on without finding the cause because that will create Lemon Law issues being we havent verified the cause and repair. Again, he stated he will not come in to diagnose the issue and I will have to order all and any parts that might be needed and to call him. Needless to say its been over a month and I havent ordered a thing nor called him back. If he treated me like a person and not barked at me telling me what I will do, he might have been taken care of. I have warrantied repairs, that other dealerships wouldnt because the customer was a good customer.
    Who makes call on warranty work? Dealer or SOA?
    Why would a dealer deny warrantable repair at dealer's discretion?
    Does dealer not make money on warranty repairs? Just curious to know. The dealership I bought my car was treating me well until I brought the car for major warrantable repair that involves disassembling transmission (speedometer gear). They could not properly diagnose the problem and just blamed TBE. I found out the cause through another dealer. They were willing to warranty the speed sensor, but not the speedometer gear until SOA gave them a green light. Since you work as a service advisor, can you share some inside information?
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  7. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexmaster View Post
    Who makes call on warranty work? Dealer or SOA?
    Why would a dealer deny warrantable repair at dealer's discretion?
    Does dealer not make money on warranty repairs? Just curious to know. The dealership I bought my car was treating me well until I brought the car for major warrantable repair that involves disassembling transmission (speedometer gear). They could not properly diagnose the problem and just blamed TBE. I found out the cause through another dealer. They were willing to warranty the speed sensor, but not the speedometer gear until SOA gave them a green light. Since you work as a service advisor, can you share some inside information?
    SOA has final call on warranty work. Dealers have certain minimal authority, but certain aspects of the warranty work have to be approved BEFORE work can be performed (tranny, turbo, major engine components and some suspension parts).

    yes, dealers do make money from warranty repairs. they get paid by SOA, but only if they approve the claim/repair. if the dealer fixes the car and SOA denies the claim, the dealer eats the cost.

    blackfang will have to answer the last part of your post as I am not sure how they might do it. They probably have to wait til SOA approves the claim before they can go ahead and say it will be fixed under warranty. that way if they fix it without an approval, they dont have to eat the cost.
    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Hey, being the forum car ADD guy is better than being the forum OG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Well nobody cares what you think, Seth

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    Quote Originally Posted by GraysonSubaru View Post
    SOA has final call on warranty work. Dealers have certain minimal authority, but certain aspects of the warranty work have to be approved BEFORE work can be performed (tranny, turbo, major engine components and some suspension parts).

    yes, dealers do make money from warranty repairs. they get paid by SOA, but only if they approve the claim/repair. if the dealer fixes the car and SOA denies the claim, the dealer eats the cost.

    blackfang will have to answer the last part of your post as I am not sure how they might do it. They probably have to wait til SOA approves the claim before they can go ahead and say it will be fixed under warranty. that way if they fix it without an approval, they dont have to eat the cost.
    In my case, the first dealer could not even diagnose the problem (dead speedometer) and just blamed my mods. The second dealer was willing to warranty the sensor, but not the speedo gear. I contacted SOA and they gave the dealer a green light. Obviously, both dealers did not even bother to contact SOA.

    Thanks for your input!
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  9. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by rexmaster View Post
    In my case, the first dealer could not even diagnose the problem (dead speedometer) and just blamed my mods. The second dealer was willing to warranty the sensor, but not the speedo gear. I contacted SOA and they gave the dealer a green light. Obviously, both dealers did not even bother to contact SOA.

    Thanks for your input!
    some dealers are just lazy and dont want to deal with it. unfortunately, it just depends on the dealer a lot of time and they just dont take a little time when it can make such a big difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Hey, being the forum car ADD guy is better than being the forum OG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Well nobody cares what you think, Seth

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    I got the warranty work done today and when I picked it up I had a talk with the service manager. I thanked her for helping me out and we talked about the warranty. She said she was quite suprised that the rep agreed to cover it because he was "hard" to deal with in most cases. I asked her if she thought it was caused by abuse and what her techs said. She told me that they couldnt tell but by the looks of other things that car was taken care of. Then she told me that the only problems they have had with the STi are the axles. So she gave me the benefit of the doubt. The rep didnt. If she hadnt of backed me up and been persistent I would be stuck with the bill. I can understand not covering warranties when there is sure signs of abuse or a mod that has caused the problem. But it seems to me that it is all about the numbers to SOA. Im really lucky to have a great dealership.

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    Quote Originally Posted by urabus its View Post
    I got the warranty work done today and when I picked it up I had a talk with the service manager. I thanked her for helping me out and we talked about the warranty. She said she was quite suprised that the rep agreed to cover it because he was "hard" to deal with in most cases. I asked her if she thought it was caused by abuse and what her techs said. She told me that they couldnt tell but by the looks of other things that car was taken care of. Then she told me that the only problems they have had with the STi are the axles. So she gave me the benefit of the doubt. The rep didnt. If she hadnt of backed me up and been persistent I would be stuck with the bill. I can understand not covering warranties when there is sure signs of abuse or a mod that has caused the problem. But it seems to me that it is all about the numbers to SOA. Im really lucky to have a great dealership.
    It sounds to me like you were persistant, but you did so in a professional manner. Kudos to you for handling the situation in the correct way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rexmaster View Post
    Who makes call on warranty work? Dealer or SOA?
    Why would a dealer deny warrantable repair at dealer's discretion?
    Does dealer not make money on warranty repairs? Just curious to know. The dealership I bought my car was treating me well until I brought the car for major warrantable repair that involves disassembling transmission (speedometer gear). They could not properly diagnose the problem and just blamed TBE. I found out the cause through another dealer. They were willing to warranty the speed sensor, but not the speedometer gear until SOA gave them a green light. Since you work as a service advisor, can you share some inside information?
    Rexmaster,
    SOA has the ultimate call on warranty repairs. I can process a claim but I have to make sure the proper procedures are followed or it will be denied by SOA. Most of the stuff I can take care of at my level, but some things require my DSOM to authorize and I can't do any repairs until he gives me the go ahead.

    Yes we do make money on warranty repairs but it is less than if it was a customer pay repair. Grayson pretty much summed it up though about how and who pays us.

    If you're vehicle is still under the factory warranty and no mods have caused the failure, I can't see why they won't make the repair on the speedo gear under warranty. I had a 2006 Forester 5 speed with around 10k on the ticker and we did a speedo gear under warranty with no problems.
    Hope this helps.
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackfang View Post
    Rexmaster,
    SOA has the ultimate call on warranty repairs. I can process a claim but I have to make sure the proper procedures are followed or it will be denied by SOA. Most of the stuff I can take care of at my level, but some things require my DSOM to authorize and I can't do any repairs until he gives me the go ahead.

    Yes we do make money on warranty repairs but it is less than if it was a customer pay repair. Grayson pretty much summed it up though about how and who pays us.

    If you're vehicle is still under the factory warranty and no mods have caused the failure, I can't see why they won't make the repair on the speedo gear under warranty. I had a 2006 Forester 5 speed with around 10k on the ticker and we did a speedo gear under warranty with no problems.
    Hope this helps.
    The problem is not every service advisor is reasonable like you. Most of them tend to think mods = no warranty. In my case, the modification has absolutely nothing to do with speedo gear failure.

    Thanks for sharing the information!
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    Thumbs down Legality of denials

    After 2 months without a cars, a couple of gs in labor, daily calls to the dealer and several calls to SOA I would have to say that warranty is quite ambigous! Is it worth the aggravation and money of going to court to battle a warranty claim, read my story and tell me what you think.

    My story: I was driving one night like in 3rd gear and 4500rpms wih a n outside temperature of around 30degF when my low fuel light came on. At that time I though that the next gas station was within the next 10 miles so it shouldn't be a problem since I've been using premium fuel (which might not be all that premium in rural Mississippi) and the car is only 10 months old. It happens that I was wrong, I heard something like a detonation and stopped to see what was going on. Everything looked ok on the engine bay so I decided to make it to the gas station and pump some new fuel. After refueling the knock continued and so did the engine light. Since it was late, I checked in a hotel 45 mins away from the closest dealership "Paul Moak Subaru" (not the one where I bought the car and take for maintenance "Koby Subaru"). I took the car limping to the dealership and it took them like a week just to pull the engine out and then a couple more days to get Dennis from SOA to look at the engine and figure what was wrong with it. For those first 2 weeks I drove around in a rental car paid for by the dealership, nice gesture.
    At that time the Service Manager (a very cool guy) told me that SOA had decided to only cover parts and not labor due to tampering with the engine... One of the reasons why I hadn't done absolutely nothing to the car is that I knew beforehand that modifications would void the warranty, and now a days with data logging, fluid analysis, stress marks and so forth it is possible to detect abuse. After talking several times to the service manager trying to find out what tampering or abuse had I done to the car he told me that he didn't wasn't told. I called SOA customer service and couldn't get a straight answer either. At that time I was offered a deal in which they will pay for the short block and one of the heads and I will pay for the labor. Called customer service again looking for a technical answer and they said that the Engineering Rep (Dennis) would get back with me but that the deal offered to me was as good as it could get. I was truly unhappy at that time since I was being blamed for damaging the car and didn't have a straight technical answer. Free rental was gone so I would have to pay for a rental to go to work... A couple of days later Dennis from SOA called me and told me that SOA was acting in good faith giving me the parts since he believed that I had installed a mechanical choke on the turbo to bring up the boost and then removed it before taking it to the shop and claiming the warranty. I tried to explain to him that I hadn't modified the car and he said that he had seen it happen several times before were custumers would bolw the pistons due to overboost.
    I asked him what would happen in the future if I would run into the same problem again since the true cause was still unsolved to which he answered that they wouldn't pay for anything the second time. My next question was what could I do in the future to prevent this from happening again if I really didn't tamper with the engine to which he replied that I should mix some octane booster and install a turbo boost gauge.
    I decided to go on and take their deal because not having a car and dragging longer into a legal battle would cost me more aggravation, money and time down the road, and as I told the customer service rep I went from being a hardcore Subaru enthusiast to wanting to trade my new car in for some other 4 wheel drive sports car. The block took like 2 weeks to get in and then they told me that the clutch was worn which is different from what they told me when they pulled the engine out. I said ok and let me look for a stronger clutch since the standard clutch only lasted 10 months, I don't redline the car but I like twisty roads. So I wasted a week looking for a clutch for the 06 clutch during new years. The big companies don't make road clutches for the 06 model yet so I went back to installing a standard clutch.

    Edit at 1/24/07: Two weeks later they got the clutch installed, the kinks figured out and the car ready. They had the nice gesture of throwing in a free clutch since I've been paying for the rental since a month and a half ago...I'll pick up the car tomorrow afternoon and drop over $2K for covering the labor.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by miguelqx View Post
    After 2 months without a cars, a couple of gs in labor, daily calls to the dealer and several calls to SOA I would have to say that warranty is quite ambigous! Is it worth the aggravation and money of going to court to battle a warranty claim, read my story and tell me what you think.

    My story: I was driving one night like in 3rd gear and 4500rpms wih a n outside temperature of around 30degF when my low fuel light came on. At that time I though that the next gas station was within the next 10 miles so it shouldn't be a problem since I've been using premium fuel (which might not be all that premium in rural Mississippi) and the car is only 10 months old. It happens that I was wrong, I heard something like a detonation and stopped to see what was going on. Everything looked ok on the engine bay so I decided to make it to the gas station and pump some new fuel. After refueling the knock continued and so did the engine light. Since it was late, I checked in a hotel 45 mins away from the closest dealership "Paul Moak Subaru" (not the one where I bought the car and take for maintenance "Koby Subaru"). I took the car limping to the dealership and it took them like a week just to pull the engine out and then a couple more days to get Dennis from SOA to look at the engine and figure what was wrong with it. For those first 2 weeks I drove around in a rental car paid for by the dealership, nice gesture.
    At that time the Service Manager (a very cool guy) told me that SOA had decided to only cover parts and not labor due to tampering with the engine... One of the reasons why I hadn't done absolutely nothing to the car is that I knew beforehand that modifications would void the warranty, and now a days with data logging, fluid analysis, stress marks and so forth it is possible to detect abuse. After talking several times to the service manager trying to find out what tampering or abuse had I done to the car he told me that he didn't wasn't told. I called SOA customer service and couldn't get a straight answer either. At that time I was offered a deal in which they will pay for the short block and one of the heads and I will pay for the labor. Called customer service again looking for a technical answer and they said that the Engineering Rep (Dennis) would get back with me but that the deal offered to me was as good as it could get. I was truly unhappy at that time since I was being blamed for damaging the car and didn't have a straight technical answer. Free rental was gone so I would have to pay for a rental to go to work... A couple of days later Dennis from SOA called me and told me that SOA was acting in good faith giving me the parts since he believed that I had installed a mechanical choke on the turbo to bring up the boost and then removed it before taking it to the shop and claiming the warranty. I tried to explain to him that I hadn't modified the car and he said that he had seen it happen several times before were custumers would bolw the pistons due to overboost.
    I asked him what would happen in the future if I would run into the same problem again since the true cause was still unsolved to which he answered that they wouldn't pay for anything the second time. My next question was what could I do in the future to prevent this from happening again if I really didn't tamper with the engine to which he replied that I should mix some octane booster and install a turbo boost gauge.
    I decided to go on and take their deal because not having a car and dragging longer into a legal battle would cost me more aggravation, money and time down the road, and as I told the customer service rep I went from being a hardcore Subaru enthusiast to wanting to trade my new car in for some other 4 wheel drive sports car. The block took like 2 weeks to get in and then they told me that the clutch was worn which is different from what they told me when they pulled the engine out. I said ok and let me look for a stronger clutch since the standard clutch only lasted 10 months, I don't redline the car but I like twisty roads. So I wasted a week looking for a clutch for the 06 clutch during new years. The big companies don't make road clutches for the 06 model yet so I went back to installing a standard clutch.

    Edit at 1/24/07: Two weeks later they got the clutch installed, the kinks figured out and the car ready. They had the nice gesture of throwing in a free clutch since I've been paying for the rental since a month and a half ago...I'll pick up the car tomorrow afternoon and drop over $2K for covering the labor.
    that sucks.

    i would maybe have asked to see the bolts on what they thought you had adjusted or modded to see if there were in fact any marks that would show it have been modded or tampered with.

    i am just at a loss of words on what to say. i will try to get some more input from out service dept and techs tomorrow to see how they feel about this and what they would do/think in this situation....
    Quote Originally Posted by RayfieldsWRX View Post
    Hey, being the forum car ADD guy is better than being the forum OG.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    Well nobody cares what you think, Seth

  16. #75
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    sounds like SOP

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