This is a discussion on subura warranty a joke within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Originally Posted by BrianH Unfortunately it's not always the dealerships call, much of the time it comes down to the ...
since you did not buy it from a subaru dealership, a regular dealer would not know what to look at other than the typical safety stuff (tires, brakes, etc) so they would not pick up on axle issues.
by not having a dealer look at it and by buying a pre-owned vehicle you knew nothing about as far as driving habits or regular services done by previous owner, you are buying their problems as well as any that may come up because of their driving habits and/or lack of services done. just a chance you take in buying a pre-owned vehicle...
All of this wishy-washy subjective definition of abuse is illegal in the eyes of the law. Denying warranty due to not purchasing the car at the dealership is illegal in the eyes of the law. Keeping a closer eye on the turbo cars and expecting abuse only happens because the profit margin on the halo cars is the smallest, so artificially keeping warranty work low improves profits for the company. I'd like to measure how many base model 2.5s are denied due to abuse, even though they are just as capable of being driven hard.
He didn't get a gift with those axles. He got hosed out of warranty work that by law should have been done. Concrete proof of abuse vs. use can't be proven 9 times out of 10, so by default, and by the law, SOA and the stealerships should cover those 9. Of course in reality they only cover 1 out of those 9, and many try to even get out of that.
I have had warranty denied on problems that in no way could have been caused by abuse. But the dealership can deny my warranty till the cows come home because they have a level of subjectivity in the warranty that can only be disputed in a court. I can and have argued logic and reason, it makes no difference. Logic and reason have nothing to do with it. I pissed someone off at SOA, now I can't get my wife's fuel smell fixed. That isn't right, and any system that is subjective enough to allow them to get away with that is broken and needs to be fixed.
Of course SOA isn't going to change anything that would cost them more money now, even if they may be driving away future sales from existing customers. But it bothers me the most that the customers here, who obviously have not yet been put in a situation like mine are so eager to defend the illegal practices of SOA. That worthless piece of paper is the only thing protecting you and your family from the gross negligence of Subaru, their quality control programs. Fighting on their behalf only increases the likelihood that some substandard piece of equipment will make in onto your car, since they fear reprisal even less. So thanks to the system working as they planned we can look forward to more problems like the glass trannys, crappy plastic motor mounts, etc. And when their corner cutting threatens to make your wife pass out, or sends her carreening off the road due to a broken steering linkage, thank SOA that you didn't have to pay a couple extra bucks for a warranty that actually means something.
if the dealer did not find a faulty part in the axles or in the area to cause it, then it will typically be found to be abuse, especially if they can find other aspects of the car that might have been abused.
i never said they denied it because they didnt buy it there, i simply stated that it makes the dealership more likely to do a goodwill repair/warranty fix when they are not required to when you have purchased from them.
it sucks about your car and i dont know the story behind it to really say anything about that, but i was talking about the axle issue.
since he bought a used car, he is still reponsible for the prev owner's driving habits and even lack of service history if that is the case....even if he has no clue who the previous owner was. Should the car have been purchased at a subaru dealer, they would have more likely know what to look for on the car when it came on trade or bought from the auction. coming from another dealership, that might have been the first time they had ever seen an STI let alone know what to look for.
as mentioned before, the dealership doesn't deny warranty, SOA and the district rep does. dealers are just the middle man and can only do what is said buy factory reps in those situations.
We have had a couple non turbo cars in here for work that were not fixed under warranty for abuse, but those cars are less likely to be driven like a WRX driver does -- people buying turbo performance cars are more likely to drive the car harder than say, my mom in her outback. I know if i had a non turbo vehicle as my daily car, i would drive it very differently than i do my wrx. any car can have abuse and cause a warranty issue, but we are not talking about anything except subaru at the moment so that is what is getting the spot light. I could go through a ton of Jeeps that have had warranty denied for a variety of reasons, but everyone seems so bent on trashing Subaru on warranty stuff that it just seems to be a big rant about how Subaru sucks. I admit, there are probably some things that should be warranty, maybe like your fuel smell issue, but for the most part, our rep is fair about doing what he can for cars that are not a cut and dry abuse case. if it is borderline, then a lot of times he will at worst, split the cost with the customer.
also, when something in border line, this is when doing your service with that dealer comes into play because they have X amount of Goodwill service they can do at a given time and if you have been a good service customer of theirs, they will use that goodwill expense to help you out in so that you continue to be their customer. If you have never gone there for service before (or made a scene at a prev repair, bad survey score, etc), then they are less likely to want to help you out and use up that goodwill repair on a customer that has trashed them before or simply gone elsewhere for prev services and save it for a customer that uses them.
have you tried your local dealer for a goodwill fix on the fuel smell thing? I dont know anything about your car, year, miles, etc, but if out of warranty time/miles, then there is typically very little that can be done...with any vehicle, not just a subaru.
goodwill repairs are limited by how many they have available for a given time and still have to be approved by Subaru, but if it is an abuse case, they will not let the dealership use the goodwill repair in most cases on that vehicle.
Sorry for your problems, but you've sorta dragged this thread into a different realm than it started in.
Grandfather of the Bugeye Mafia
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited
2002 Subaru WRX Bugeyebrid Wagon
You know what is funny? Subaru advertises their turbo cars as performance cars. If you pick up a Modified Mag or any other publication, you'll have a picture of an STi, boasting about performance numbers. I even saw one ad where they put down Vw's saying "when you are fast, there is no need for a small character saying you are." SOA prides themselves on their rally championships, "road gripping AWD" and performance, afterall "its what makes a subaru a subaru.
So tell me exactly, how can any claim be called abuse when you are just driving your car the way Subaru markets you to drive it?
Seems to me like they embrace and condone "abusive driving habits" in marketing and once the practice are followed and things break warranty raises an issue.
there is a big difference between driving like an enthusiast and driving like an idiot.
i drive my car fast a lot of times, but driving it the right way while doing it is key. I have almost 80k on a stage 2 wrx that has seen SCCA events, track days (another one upcoming), and uncountable days at the dragon and I am still on the original OEM clutch and tranny, axles, etc. I have different springs and a rear sway bar as far as those things go along with the cobb stage 2 stuff and have not had any issues with the car....no rods coming through the engine, axles busting, etc. I do my scheduled services and dont abuse the car...i drive it.
I've never seen an ad for a subaru where they say, "Drive our cars spiritedly but be friendly. Don't push the performance envelope and actually try to see the numbers we are boasting in this ad or your car will break or cause exsessive wear and we won't cover it. Instead, drive at 10 and 2, and know that if you want to void your warranty, you can run against that SRT4 that is reving next to you."
Or "0-60 in 4.7 Secs, Brembo brakes, Symmetrical AWD. Don't use it to its potential or you MAY be sorry. Its what makes a Subaru a Subaru."
that really goes for any product...
heck, we sold the guy in KY an ESX powered STI and I know he drives the crap out of it...did a top speed run at a old local airstrip, takes it to tracks constantly, etc, but he has never had anything break in the car...his 3rd STI. difference in abuse and driving hard and smart.
Last edited by GraysonSubaru; 01-08-2007 at 08:19 AM.
You are also making the assumption that all parts that come on the car from factory in brand new condition have no defects in their parts.
It will be interesting to see what the future dictates for the warranty on 06's. The little tranny that could, everyone complained about on the 02-05's got stressed out even more by the addition of around 40 ft-lbs of clutch twisting gear snapping torque in 06 with the addition of the ej25.
Does this mean when I buy my AP and install the exhaust I have, go stage 2, increase torque to 70ft-lbs over a stock 02-05 ej20, that I have to drive less hard than you so that things won't break and my warranty wont be denied?
BTW, I drive hard but responsible and perform all the maintenance ahead of schedule. Thus far I have 12k miles on my 06 TR about a month away from stage 2. I have had no warranty issues thus far but are pretty sceptical as to weather the little tranny that could is gonna survive 80 k miles of the driving you describe above.
I guess time will tell.
if you are driving the car hard and something breaks, and a faulty part is not to blame after inspections, then you were driving in a manner the car was not designed for...
as for your stage 2 comment, maybe so. technically you are adding more power to a drivetrain that is built for the way the car comes off the showroom floor in stock form. additions to the power can cause strain on certain parts. i have yet to see a stage 2 car driven right have any problems, but that isnt to say it cant happen...driven ability and habits, conditions will play a part there, as will if there are any faulty parts in your vehicle.
we have not seen any really modified 2006 + wrx yet so i dont know first hand how they will hold up, but would figure they will be ok as long as they are driven responsibly..unlike the wrx in here that had the stripped 3rd gear and clutch plate turned blue it had been so hot.
My wife doesn't abuse her stock AT WRX wagon. But two dealerships in the area refused to do warranty work on her car for the fuel smell. They refused because I created a stink when my front O2 sensor crapped out and they also refused to cover it. I've never used leaded gas, or done anything else that would have caused the front O2 sensor to crap out.
No abuse of either of the cars occurred, yet dealerships and the local rep were able to deny warranty coverage simply because the legal system lets them. They have a clause for abuse, and can make that claim whenever they feel like it, whether there is a logical explanation for the abuse or not. Right or wrong never comes into play, unless you're talking about the way my aggrivated comments rubbed them. The system for warranty approval is being abused by the people in charge of approving warranties, simply because they can. Either SOA needs to come down on the local rep (which they refuse to do "the dealerships aren't under our control"), or the warranty needs to be rewritten such that dealerships and corrupt local reps can't use the subjectivity for their own personal beefs.
Nobody here knows if those axles were abused or defective. But everyone uses their specious resoning that since theirs didn't break, it must be abuse, or since nothing else was wrong it was abuse, or any other arbitrary excuse to screw this customer. By law, and by common decency, the customer should get the benefit of the doubt. Obviously from my experience, only those who can afford to sue left and right have the right to be respected (unless you're lucky enough to have a dealership that hasn't yet gotten the clue).
Abuse or not can not be determined by inspection, so why should it be the conclusion anyway? It ends up coming down to who sucks up the best to the right people, and nothing more. That isn't right, but that's how it is. Pretending it actually has something to do with abuse or not is dreaming. And thinking there should be some arbitrary line where one person is rewarded while another is trashed is great in theory, but that line isn't the same for everyone everywhere. SOA knows this and does nothing. By doing nothing, they are rewarding the dealerships that screw the most people, and penalizing those that act in good faith. They've created a system where the customer is never right. The only way to fix it is to take the subjectivity out of it, which will never happen because it's too profitable.
I give up. Much apologies for my "specious resoning".
Grandfather of the Bugeye Mafia
2013 Subaru BRZ Limited
2002 Subaru WRX Bugeyebrid Wagon