Replacing TGV Motor...please help!!
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This is a discussion on Replacing TGV Motor...please help!! within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; I have the dreaded P1091 (TGV System one stuck closed). I replaced the TGV Motor on that side (Right-or passenger-side), ...

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    Registered User Pylonpounder's Avatar
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    Replacing TGV Motor...please help!!

    I have the dreaded P1091 (TGV System one stuck closed). I replaced the TGV Motor on that side (Right-or passenger-side), and unfortunately after clearing the codes and driving, it came back. I have a feeling I know why though- I replaced it in a bit of a hurry last night, and the little white half-gear inside the TGV assembly that the TGV Motor moves was at top dead center (In other words, the hemi-spherical gear was in a position such that the flat side of the hemisphere was facing down, completely parallel to the horizon, horizontally speaking). I've got a feeling that that little white half-gear should be either to one side or the other when installing the new TGV Motor- I called EFI and asked them, but unfortunately they didn't know because they've only ever really done TGV Deletes, not just a repair on it.

    Question being, does anyone know to which side, or in what position, that gear should be when I install the new TGV motor? I'm really tired of being in limp mode- and can't afford a new set of TGV's, or TGV Deletes. (I did however, ask EFI to send me a copy of my tune- it was tuned using the accessport program and my accessport is dead, but I have another AP, sending them the serial number of the new one so they can switch my map to that serial# and make my tune compatible with that- But honestly, I'm thinking I may just copy all of their data from the AP program into Romraider and uninstall the AP entirely, and flash the new open source map onto the ECU...I intend on either installing the new AP or going to open source either way, but I would really like to get it out of limp mode in the mean time..)

    That being said, any help would be greately appreciated!!!

    Thanks!

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    Registered User subypete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylonpounder View Post
    I have the dreaded P1091 (TGV System one stuck closed). I replaced the TGV Motor on that side (Right-or passenger-side), and unfortunately after clearing the codes and driving, it came back. I have a feeling I know why though- I replaced it in a bit of a hurry last night, and the little white half-gear inside the TGV assembly that the TGV Motor moves was at top dead center (In other words, the hemi-spherical gear was in a position such that the flat side of the hemisphere was facing down, completely parallel to the horizon, horizontally speaking). I've got a feeling that that little white half-gear should be either to one side or the other when installing the new TGV Motor- I called EFI and asked them, but unfortunately they didn't know because they've only ever really done TGV Deletes, not just a repair on it.

    Question being, does anyone know to which side, or in what position, that gear should be when I install the new TGV motor? I'm really tired of being in limp mode- and can't afford a new set of TGV's, or TGV Deletes. (I did however, ask EFI to send me a copy of my tune- it was tuned using the accessport program and my accessport is dead, but I have another AP, sending them the serial number of the new one so they can switch my map to that serial# and make my tune compatible with that- But honestly, I'm thinking I may just copy all of their data from the AP program into Romraider and uninstall the AP entirely, and flash the new open source map onto the ECU...I intend on either installing the new AP or going to open source either way, but I would really like to get it out of limp mode in the mean time..)

    That being said, any help would be greately appreciated!!!

    Thanks!
    Wish I could help with your problem. But, I think you are going to find that most people who tear town their car to get to the intake manifold are like me (and EFI) and do so with the intent of deleting the TGVs. Keep in mind, you don't necessarily have to pay for TGV deletes - it's a fairly straight forward DIY. There are several great 'how-to's' out there. The only thing you'll have to remember to do is disable the codes in Romraider. It sounds like you've got the tools and aptitude to get to your TGVs... so you probably have the skills to do the DIY TGV delete mod.
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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    +1 on just deleting them

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    Registered User Pylonpounder's Avatar
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    I will get around to doing the delete- However, as stated, the tune I currently have is specific to one particular accessport, VIA the serial number. That accessport is as dead as they get- Cobb would have to straight replace it to fix it in all likelyhood. I can ovverride and then uninstall the accessport entirely using another V2 accessport, but that brings me back to a stock map, and this is a hybrid build with STi injectors, 255LPH Walboro, on the stock TD04, heads machined by Equilibrium Tuning out to 2.5 Combustion chamber, plus TBE. So the tune is absolutely necessary.

    I talked to EFI and gave them the new serial # for another accessport I have access to, so they can change the map over to that serial number. Once that's done and they have emailed me the tune, I can open it up with the accessport tuning software, and copy all of their ratios and parameters into either ECUFlash or Romraider, uninstall the accessport entirely, and flash it open source. however according to EFI, the current tune that was done using the Accessport program, is not directly transferable to Romraider or ECUFlash. If the accessport I am now going to use was actually mine, it wouldn't be an issue and I would just use the AP tuning software to remove the TGV codes.

    Of course... Maybe one of you can answer this; if I load the tune from EFI onto the AP I'm going to use, flash it to the ECU, and then un-mate it from the ECU so it can be returned to my friend for his use, would the map stay on the ECU or would it revert to stock? My AP has been broken for 2 years now; I really don't remember if unmating and uninstalling the AP are the same thing. I know uninstalling will revert the ECU to stock; Can I unmate it and have the tune remain? In that case I can do the deletes as soon as they send me the map, and that would be nice...

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    Registered User subypete's Avatar
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    I'm fairly certain if you unmarry the AP you lose the tune.

    Edit: Confirmed... you have to reflash to the base map to unmarry.
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    OMG WTF MainFrame's Avatar
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    The tune goes with the AP.. and you won't be able to flash over your AP tune with ECUFlash, you would have to use a new AP to write over the old AP tune.. or send your ECU to Cobb to have it reverted back to stock. Also, EFI is right, you can't just take an AP map and transfer it over to RomRaider.

    I would talk to Cobb about it. You either need to get your old AP fixed/replaced, or buy a new one.. then delete your TGVs, and take your current map and disable the DTCs related to TGVs using ATR.

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    Registered User Pylonpounder's Avatar
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    I talked to Cobb right after I posted that, and they answered all my questions; and told me that worst case scenario, it will cost about half what I was worried it would to fix my AP. So I'm having EFI send me my tune with my serial #; once my AP is fixed, I'll use the AP tuner to remove the TGV codes, and do a DIY TGV Delete. I'm still kinda considering looking at all the parameters of EFI's tune and creating my own open source map based upon it just for the experience of it, but looks like I'll be staying with cobb after all.

    And my motors almost all back together; I found the simplest way to install the TGV Motors was to remove the intake manifold. The "open" setting of the spring, (I.E., where the TGV valves will go to if tension is removed, such as when you pull the TGV Motor off) is with the valves open all the way; in order to install the TGV Motors, you have to set the TGV's to fully closed and then install the motors. Easiest way I found, was to pull the manifold and hold the valves themselves down while installing the motor. Heres hoping it gets rid of my limp mode

    Thanks again for all your help and input guys! I wish I had my camera, I'd have done a write up.

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    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    +1 on just deleting them
    +1000 on deleting them. Delete with extreme prejudice. Nothing but trouble.
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    I'm all for deleting, but I will say that TGVs were a brilliant idea.
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    Moderator   Sasquatch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    I'm all for deleting, but I will say that TGVs were a brilliant idea.
    WTF - really? TGVs were only used in the USDM, correct? If so, they were beyond stupid.
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    zax
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasquatch View Post
    WTF - really? TGVs were only used in the USDM, correct? If so, they were beyond stupid.
    They allowed an older motor constructed under less-stringent emissions requirements to meet considerably more stringent emissions requirements without significant redesign or measurable reduction in power output. A relatively successful technical innovation IMO.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pylonpounder View Post
    I talked to Cobb right after I posted that, and they answered all my questions; and told me that worst case scenario, it will cost about half what I was worried it would to fix my AP. So I'm having EFI send me my tune with my serial #; once my AP is fixed, I'll use the AP tuner to remove the TGV codes, and do a DIY TGV Delete. I'm still kinda considering looking at all the parameters of EFI's tune and creating my own open source map based upon it just for the experience of it, but looks like I'll be staying with cobb after all.

    And my motors almost all back together; I found the simplest way to install the TGV Motors was to remove the intake manifold. The "open" setting of the spring, (I.E., where the TGV valves will go to if tension is removed, such as when you pull the TGV Motor off) is with the valves open all the way; in order to install the TGV Motors, you have to set the TGV's to fully closed and then install the motors. Easiest way I found, was to pull the manifold and hold the valves themselves down while installing the motor. Heres hoping it gets rid of my limp mode

    Thanks again for all your help and input guys! I wish I had my camera, I'd have done a write up.
    All you had to do was remove the TPS/TGV position sensor,install motor,re-install sensor. It is spring loaded and was causing the tension.
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    Registered User Pylonpounder's Avatar
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    I replaced the sensor today because it was still claiming TGV system 1 closed- Replacing the sensor cleared it up. But when I took the old one off, I heard it spring back. I suppose if id done both at once it would be way easier.. but putting the sensor alone on, I had to actually dismantle the sensor and pre-load it by hand and then put the cover back on the sensor and re seal it once it was on, (Turbo and turbo inlet were in the way of simply rotating the sensor while in position to preload the spring in it), and I'm entirely too brain dead at the moment to work through the logic of what position the TGV's need to be in while off and the way its loaded and blah blah. I'm glad I did take off the intake mani anyway, I got alot of other things done.

    That said- I then had to replace an o-ring on the back passenger side injector, because while dismantling it to take off the mani, I popped the bolts for the fuel rail, forgetting that they werent for the fuel injector rail cover, and an o-ring went. Back together, no limp mode. Front 02 sensor code and all of a sudden I'm also getting an IAT code....and its missing like crazy, but not throwing codes for it. had a spare coil (the gas got everywhere over the passenger side coils, as did a bit of coolant that I spilled), replaced the plugs, cleaned up the connectors on the coil wires, traded each coil out for the good one..Cleaned up the miss, but not entirely. I'm not sure why either. I'm going to try putting a friends coil on the one thats still one of my old ones just incase I managed to kill both coils, since putting one new one on did help significantly..my only other idea is while I didn't take the front passenger injector all the way out, (And not out of the rail itself at all, thus saving the o-rings) perhaps the head of the front passenger injector got a little bit dirty when I pulled the left one.

    We'll see where it leads, I really dont know what the miss (Well, miss-type feeling, since it's not throwing a misfire code at all) could be besides the other coil, or perhaps the front pass injector being a little dirty. Anyone got any ideas? I'm trying to eliminate all the other possibilities before I start looking into vacuum leaks, because I don't have a smoke tester.

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    Registered User Pylonpounder's Avatar
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    Okay, so- Found a bad coil. Replaced it. Still a bit weird. Got a new MAF to take care of the IAT code. Better....still weird. Have a code for TGV Sensor 1 low input, and the service manual says that could cause some pretty bad stuff. I'll pull a new sensor (man, I don't have luck with this- Original was bad, "new(used)" one I put on is bad- though thats probably my fault for taking it apart the way I did...) somewhere for cheap.

    Running some injector cleaner through it just for the hell of it- Next time I'm tearing into it I'll look to see if the front passenger side injector is dirty at all and clean it if necessary (Assuming the TGV sensor doesn't fix it anyway)

    Thanks again for your help and input, hopefully someone learns from my mistakes

    (PS- as soon as I get my AP repaired, I will be using cobbs APtuner to remove the TGV CEL's, pull the motors, and be done with it- I'm okay with the TGV's just remaining open, and not taking out the butterflies. When I have more time I'll do a full DIY TGV Delete, for now it is what it is)

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