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This is a discussion on Please help within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; i was driving home from airport. a five hour drive. two hours into drive I see a little spray of ...

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    Please help

    i was driving home from airport. a five hour drive. two hours into drive I see a little spray of water come up on my windshield. I thought wtf was that. I was looking at my guages for any signs of error. everything seemed okay. but as I looked out my side mirror I coukd see smoke!!. my engine temp was full into the hot side. I pulled over. opened the hood to a cloud of smoke. the overflow container top had opened. antifreeze was all over the place. and whike i was coming to a stop I left a nice trail of antifreeze on the road. I managed to get to a fas station to buy some antifreeze to try and re fill it. I emptied the whole container into the rad, plus filled the overflow chamber back to the cold line. there was about a 1 hour break in between all this. so I started it back up and the temps seemed normal. everything sounded ok. so I proceeded down the highway as there is a gas station I was trying to get to which was about 3-4 km away. well the temps stayed in the normal range, right in the middle of hoy and cold. but right as I got to the off ramp the temp apiked all the way to hot again. I put it in neutral to try and coast in to gas station. so my car was idling while I was coasting my last 100 m to a place to stop. then the engine died on its own. I managed to just coast to the spot i intended. I had a look under the hood. the new fluids I out in were still full. I waited about 10 mins. tried to start it and oh oh!! I heard a very bad sound from the starter. the starter was turning but something sounded very bad. I quickly gave up trying to start it. I managed to call a friend to get a ride home. but wtf is up with my car. I wasnt speeding.b I had been on the highway for approx 1 hour, traveling about 115+120 km an hour. the day prior to this I drove the whole 5 hour trip in one shot with no issues.
    can anyone give me a idea of what's up?
    there are no engine check codes as I ran my cobb ap to check for any errors. so i am at a loss as to what is wrong with this. I juat had all the fluids checked less than a month ago. I only have 79000 kms on it. the car is in very good condition. I will be phoning my extended warranty this morning to see what's up. but is my car ruined. I have never seen a car not start after it overheating.
    but I am no mechanic. anyone have some advice?

    Part two.

    Well things look bad. I had it at the shop and they said the water pump seized up, Which then knocked the timing off or something. They are telling me I need a new engine. And I talked to my Nationwide Warranty and they say they dont cover problems that arise from engine overheating. So what, That is it. I need a new motor. The warranty at this point said they will cover the cost of a new water pump plus install labour time. but this is a big gap to a new engine. Does anyone have some advice on how to fix this without a brand new engine. Apparently Subaru told them around 8000 for a new motor. And the closet used motor is 5000 and it has 90,000km on it. 10,000km more than mine. I am soo mad. My warranty has unlimited coverage per claim. But they are taking the stance that they wont help. Please I need some advice as I need my car back. Thanks

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    MAINEiac 11blackSTi's Avatar
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    Who is the warranty through and who are you talking to that is saying the claim is denied? I would contact subaru of america if the warranty is through subaru. I would also try and talk to someone else (at wherever your warranty is through) and try and figure out who and what level I need to talk to. If they are willing to replace the part that failed and ruined the engine, then they should be footing the bill to fix all the damage caused by said part. That is the point of a warranty.

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    Registered User Ingo's Avatar
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    You might probably be able to argue that the seized water pump caused the belt to go and that is what destroyed the engine, not so much the overheating - if that holds water...
    You can't have everything - where would you put it?

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    The warranty is through nationwide as it is a extended to 200,000 kms no time limit. My car has 79,000 km. And so far i talked to three diff people at the nationwide. The first person two weeks ago when this happened. Then they phoned me two days ago to tell me the bad news of only covering the water pump. So I asked to speak to the supervisor, I spoke with him for 20 mins. He kept saying the same crap that they dont cover any damage that happens because it overheats. i kept saying, If the water pump did not fail the car would not have over heated.
    From my looking around on the web, it seems that as soon as the water pump cant turn then that belt will immediately make the timing go out. So the timing belt also turns the water pump pully. Can someone help elaborate on this. Because If I can understand this a bit better I have a better chance of explaining to this guy that they are on the hook for a new motor.

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    Registered User SilverSemoWrx's Avatar
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    Correct me if I'm wrong but with my motor when you buy a timing belt "kit" it also comes with a new water pump. The water pump wouldn't be in the kit if the belt didn't turn it. That being said if the pump seized there is a good chance that caused your motor to go bad. Your car was going to over heat no matter what you did.
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    Registered User Obeisance's Avatar
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    The water pump is not driven by the splines on the timing belt. Thus, even if the water pump is seized, the belt has a chance of slipping past it (although the belt is pretty tight). You ought to be sure that there has been valve sealing damage (this may indicate bent valves, right?) by performing a compression test.

    In any case, a failed water pump or thermostat can cause the overheating.. it is most likely (as others have said) that the overheating is a symptom of the failed component rather than the cause of a dead engine.
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    Registered User Ingo's Avatar
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    OK, that picture shows it quite clearly. The pump is not driven by the splines, but still driven by the BELT. This belt will see a big resistance on the pump pulley and certainly overheat in very short order IF it slips over that pulley. Then it breaks (or jumps) and there goes the engine... Interference engine without timing belt = valves bent, broken, pistons busted, head shot...
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    Registered User Obeisance's Avatar
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    Well things look bad. I had it at the shop and they said the water pump seized up, Which then knocked the timing off or something. They are telling me I need a new engine.
    If I were in your shoes, being ever skeptical and holding out for any possible hope, I would like to see what evidence they have that this is truly the case.

    Can you have the shop show you that the timing marks on the pulleys do not align? With the timing covers off, slow rotation of the crank with a wrench allows you to spin the system enough to see if there is any sudden resistance to spinning (possible evidence of valve-piston contact). You should be able to watch and see if the water pump spins too. (ignore the installation marks on the timing belt since these move around).

    Has the shop performed a compression test to be certain that there is engine damage (assuming they can crank it without massive valve smashing)?
    David - '05 WRX

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    Village Idiot McBill's Avatar
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    I would be raising absolute hell with your warranty provider. The cause of your catastrophic engine failure is undoubtedly from the water pump seizing and NOT the car overheating. I feel like the people who work these insurance claims have absolutely NO clue how a car works therefore are completely ignorant to what they are denying claims for. The shop even specifically told you the cause of your engine failure was from the timing getting knocked out due to the seizure of your water pump. I'm not sure if the claim was reported wrong saying the engine failure was due to overheating or not but the obvious chain goes as follows: Water pump seizure ---> engine overheating because no water is being circulated through the block, simultaneously screwing up the timing ---> Engine Failure cause NOT by over heating but instead by bad timing.

    This should be a no-brainer for the warranty company and don't let anyone make you think otherwise. This could just be the insurance company trying every possible way not to fork over the money for an engine rebuild or a new one all together.
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    Lawyer up, and make your case. They will either fight it they are really stupid, or because it sounds like you have good grounds for a case.....pay off on a new engine. I don't know what kind of rep nationwide has for extended warenties.....but if they acknowledge failure of the water pump, it's a no brainer that is what caused the overheating. Even without the overheating, there could be head and valve damage from the timing being altered by the water pump freezing.

    good luck..
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    Pro Manscaper Mikie13's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ingo View Post
    if that holds water...
    I see what you did there...

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    By signing the warranty agreement, did you also agree to binding arbitration in the event of a dispute rather than retain the right to pursue legal action against the company?
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  14. #13
    Registered User Ingo's Avatar
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    Can you get the old timing belt? I bet $/donuts that when it stopped the splines at the crank position are ground off. That would prove the fact that the engine damage is not due to over heating. In fact over heating would "only" blow head gasket and probably warp/crack the head. It would still require quite a bit of engine work, but it would be repair-able!! I still vote it's the warranties responsibility. I'd even consider lawyer...
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    Not sure about the signing the warranty part about giving up my right to sue. I just stopped by the garage again. They basically said again, The water pump seized, And some idler tension er bearing were seized too. He said as soon as the water pump goes like that the timing belt is going to slip or go out right away. He said its impossible to shut the car off fast enough without breaking the motor. He also said he told the warranty people that and that they are going to get back to him. I have been looking into getting a lawyer but what kind of lawyer do I need. Thanx to all who helped with a reply. I will keep you guys posted.

  16. #15
    Registered User Ingo's Avatar
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    Good idea to get the mechanic and warranty people to talk. That alone might do the trick. I sure hope it works out without having to resort to the "bid club". The warranty really should take care of it, you didn't buy it for only a waterpump...
    You can't have everything - where would you put it?

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