Extremely Confused
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This is a discussion on Extremely Confused within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; Hi guys im new to this forum and new to subarus. I recently bought a 2011 wrx hatchback and it ...

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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    Extremely Confused

    Hi guys im new to this forum and new to subarus. I recently bought a 2011 wrx hatchback and it had a boat load of mods done to the car befre i bought it. Now when i say im confused thats just being moddest. I am hearing this sort of wastegate flutter when i floor the gas. now i noticed it starts at 12 psi / 3500 rpm all the way until redline or until i let go of the gas. After careful reading, research, and asking questions i am stuck. My car was tuned by Akuma Motorsports and I took the car to them and there saying its normal because I have an electronic boost controller solenoid from grimmspeed. Now my best friend has been building boxer motors for three years and he is also a subaru mechanic. He is telling me the wastegate should not be fluttering underload and should be a solid screaming sound regardless of boost controller. Grimmspeed said its normal because of the design of the ebcs. Tial had no comment on the situation (email.) I decided to buy a new Boost Controller ( manual ) from turbosmart as well as a new Grimmspeed Wastegate bracket ( mine was slightly bent.) My friend said switching over from ebcs to mbc could cure the problem. as well as my bracket not being secured properly could also be at fault. I am getting so many mixed answers and it is extremely frustrating and costing me money. what could the problem be ( if there is one) and how could I fix it? Also my friend did mention i could be overboosting and not even know it. So can someone please shed some light.

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    Luke Skywalker Mikie13's Avatar
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    Is it still currently tuned properly for any of the mods still on it?
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    Master Baiter EJ257's Avatar
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    Flutter is normal with an EBCS system. An MBC will make it go away.
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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    Yes it is tuned for all the mods accordingly. Ok, so in an honest opinion what is better an ebcs or mbc? I do not plan on doing anything more until wayy into the future. And if i run the mbc inline with the ebcs will that help any?

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Your friend who "has been building boxer motors for three years and he is also a subaru mechanic" evidently has no clue what he's talking about (make sure you don't let him touch your car, or give you any more advice). A 3-port EBCS modulates boost by rapidly opening and closing, which in turn will make your wastegate rapidly open and close when target boost is reached, causing the sound you're describing.


    I wouldn't say either is "better". An EBCS is able to retain features like boost cut in the event of a problem which can potentially save your engine. A MBC will be more responsive (and subjectively sound better when coupled with an EWG).

    If it's tuned on the EBCS, and the fluttering sound doesn't bother you too much, I would just save your money and keep it how it is.

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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MainFrame View Post
    Your friend who "has been building boxer motors for three years and he is also a subaru mechanic" evidently has no clue what he's talking about (make sure you don't let him touch your car, or give you any more advice). A 3-port EBCS modulates boost by rapidly opening and closing, which in turn will make your wastegate rapidly open and close when target boost is reached, causing the sound you're describing.


    I wouldn't say either is "better". An EBCS is able to retain features like boost cut in the event of a problem which can potentially save your engine. A MBC will be more responsive (and subjectively sound better when coupled with an EWG).

    If it's tuned on the EBCS, and the fluttering sound doesn't bother you too much, I would just save your money and keep it how it is.
    Thank you i finally have alittle more peace of mind. I contacted grimmspeed directly and they said the same thing. I really dont know why my friends persist on saying my car is running like **** because of that. I hate to say but i think he kinda jealous only becuase he use to have one the fastest wagons in our area until he blew it up. Now i did plan on keeping the ebcs but i was also planning to run the mbc inline with the ebcs just to control the flutter. The grimmspeed rep said that would be another way to get the flutter to a minimal. I needed the ewg bracket anyway so atleast that wasnt so much of a waste.

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    You can always run hybrid boost control, in many ways it's the best of both worlds.. but it also adds another level of complexity to the boost control system, and in turn, another point of possible failure.

    Another thing to consider is that if you do add in the MBC you will need to get it re-tuned.. so more cost, and there will be no noticeable difference in performance, just sound.



    The reason your friends persist in saying your car isn't running right is simply because they don't understand how it works.

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    You need to go read cobbs white paper Info on engine management ,boost control and tuning then you will know what is right and wrong when you listen to people that think they know what there talking about. I found there info on tuning spark,boost and fuel management fascinating , a bit of a long read but detailed second to none! Linked in info on maps . When you say flutter I think your boost is overpowering your blowoff valve or wastage spring/diaphragm, or boost control maps are out of whack.ap data log is you friend .read and learn.
    Do not use manual boost control !!!!! Subaru has spent millions so you can go fast and not grenade your boxer

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    Damned Malcontent shamankjm's Avatar
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    He used to have the fastest wagon around until he blew it up?

    Yeah, don't think I'd go to him for tuning advice.


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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    Thank you guys for the responses. After everything i know its normal. Case and point grimmspeed designed it they said its normal under correct operation so im leaving it be.
    2011 WRB WRX: DW 850 cc injectors. ProcessWest tmic. Custom SRI. GT spec header. Invidia catted DP. Tsudo CBE. GT spec up-pipe. Tial mv-s ewg. Grimmspeed ebcs. Cobb AP w/ custom tune. STI ssk. ACT stage 2 clutch/pressure plate. StopTech/ Wilwood sport brake system ( front). Whiteline 3-pt adj. sway bars f/r.

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjiswrxtaxi View Post
    When you say flutter I think your boost is overpowering your blowoff valve or wastage spring/diaphragm, or boost control maps are out of whack.ap data log is you friend .read and learn.
    Do not use manual boost control !!!!! Subaru has spent millions so you can go fast and not grenade your boxer

    I think there's pretty much an agreement on what is going on. Anyone who has ran a VTA EWG on a 3-port EBCS (and understands how it works) will immediately recognize the sound. None of the things you mentioned cause what we are talking about. The sound we are talking about occurs when everything is functioning perfectly.

    Here's an example of a 3-port EBCS and EWG functioning correctly.




    And a MBC can be used just fine without grenading your engine.. it just has to be set up correctly.

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    Thanks , I have not heard grimmspeed 3 port sound so I will
    Check myself and only comment on things I have first hand
    Experience in

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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    Wow thats exactly what im hearing. Idk if its from video quality but it almost sounds like the fluttering but then goes solid. Or does it continue to flutter and just because its loud you cant hear it as much?
    2011 WRB WRX: DW 850 cc injectors. ProcessWest tmic. Custom SRI. GT spec header. Invidia catted DP. Tsudo CBE. GT spec up-pipe. Tial mv-s ewg. Grimmspeed ebcs. Cobb AP w/ custom tune. STI ssk. ACT stage 2 clutch/pressure plate. StopTech/ Wilwood sport brake system ( front). Whiteline 3-pt adj. sway bars f/r.

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    Registered User SubiesaurusWRX's Avatar
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    I was driving my car the other day and the car turned off partially and turned back on, almost like a hiccup. And after that the cel came one, tcs light was on, cruise control was blinking. The AP read me the code as wastegate solenoid 'a' driver malfunction. I cleared the code, and remapped the car and everything is smooth now. I was getting on the car a bit just to feel a rush and that happened. People say overboost or boost creep and cold weather all play a factor in this. Is there anything I could do prevent this from happening again?
    2011 WRB WRX: DW 850 cc injectors. ProcessWest tmic. Custom SRI. GT spec header. Invidia catted DP. Tsudo CBE. GT spec up-pipe. Tial mv-s ewg. Grimmspeed ebcs. Cobb AP w/ custom tune. STI ssk. ACT stage 2 clutch/pressure plate. StopTech/ Wilwood sport brake system ( front). Whiteline 3-pt adj. sway bars f/r.

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    Subaru Newb MainFrame's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benjiswrxtaxi View Post
    Thanks , I have not heard grimmspeed 3 port sound so I will
    Check myself and only comment on things I have first hand
    Experience in

    All 3-ports basically function the same way, and will sound the same.. not just the Grimmspeed unit.



    Quote Originally Posted by SubiesaurusWRX View Post
    Wow thats exactly what im hearing. Idk if its from video quality but it almost sounds like the fluttering but then goes solid. Or does it continue to flutter and just because its loud you cant hear it as much?

    The sound was solid when I wasn't pushing the gas very hard, so the wastegate was just barely cracking open.. when I press the gas harder and it spools up all the way then the flutter is more pronounced.


    Quote Originally Posted by SubiesaurusWRX View Post
    I was driving my car the other day and the car turned off partially and turned back on, almost like a hiccup. And after that the cel came one, tcs light was on, cruise control was blinking. The AP read me the code as wastegate solenoid 'a' driver malfunction. I cleared the code, and remapped the car and everything is smooth now. I was getting on the car a bit just to feel a rush and that happened. People say overboost or boost creep and cold weather all play a factor in this. Is there anything I could do prevent this from happening again?

    Cold weather can cause you to overboost or creep (you're not going to creep with an EWG though). But neither overboost or creep will shut the car off.. overboost will cut fuel, so there will be a sudden lack of power. What gear and rpm were you in when it happened? Overboost will be prevented with a good tune.. just adjusting the WGDC % should keep it from overboosting.

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