Monster torque-steer both positive and negative.
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This is a discussion on Monster torque-steer both positive and negative. within the General Maintenance, Troubleshooting & Accidents. forums, part of the Tech & Modifying & General Repairs category; So let me start off by saying I'm not new to STi's. I had an '05 and it was awesome. ...

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    Monster torque-steer both positive and negative.

    So let me start off by saying I'm not new to STi's. I had an '05 and it was awesome. Been through a few cars since then and now I have a '13 STi.

    My question is simply to ask if it's normal, not to complain. I'm coming from a relatively high-powered RWD car back to AWD. I notice something that first took me by surprise but now I expect it and use it. Torque steer.

    If I'm in a turn and I am on the throttle even a little, I have to adjust my steering angle to maintain my radius. If I lift off the throttle, the car dives into the turn and I have to adjust my steering angle maybe 1-2 degrees depending on my speed in the turn.

    My question: Is this normal? Do I have loose muffler bearings or am I low on blinker fluid? Is my hyperhoophenator valve about to fail? I don't recall this behavior in my 2005 STi and I'm just wondering if it's something of a design change. I can plainly see why it would be happening and it's not enough to cause me to think something is setup wrong/malfunctioning. The important thing to note is that I am coming from a RWD car so my senses of vehicle dynamics are still used to that experience.
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    I wish I could help more with this but i haven't taken my 13wrx to a twisty track yet but I do know that because of motor placement, our cars to understeer. This can be helped with thicker stiffer swaybars, especially the rear one. Maybe this is what your referring to?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vexamus View Post
    So let me start off by saying I'm not new to STi's. I had an '05 and it was awesome. Been through a few cars since then and now I have a '13 STi.

    My question is simply to ask if it's normal, not to complain. I'm coming from a relatively high-powered RWD car back to AWD. I notice something that first took me by surprise but now I expect it and use it. Torque steer.

    If I'm in a turn and I am on the throttle even a little, I have to adjust my steering angle to maintain my radius. If I lift off the throttle, the car dives into the turn and I have to adjust my steering angle maybe 1-2 degrees depending on my speed in the turn.

    My question: Is this normal? Do I have loose muffler bearings or am I low on blinker fluid? Is my hyperhoophenator valve about to fail? I don't recall this behavior in my 2005 STi and I'm just wondering if it's something of a design change. I can plainly see why it would be happening and it's not enough to cause me to think something is setup wrong/malfunctioning. The important thing to note is that I am coming from a RWD car so my senses of vehicle dynamics are still used to that experience.
    Sounds like you just need to get used to the dynamics of throttle steering with a different car. To my mind, torque steer generally means that wonderful feeling of the steering wheel trying to rip itself out of your hands, which it doesn't seem to me to be what you're describing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calvinball View Post
    Sounds like you just need to get used to the dynamics of throttle steering with a different car. To my mind, torque steer generally means that wonderful feeling of the steering wheel trying to rip itself out of your hands, which it doesn't seem to me to be what you're describing.
    Yeah, you're right come to think of it. I just wanted ot make sure I had my head on straight is all. Thanks for the correction.
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    Have you tried playing around with the DCCD settings? What you're describing doesn't sounds too out of the ordinary. Maybe the extra nanny-aids like Traction Control and Torque Vectoring are the difference between your '05 and the '13?

    When I went from my bugeye to the Outback, the torque vectoring and traction control did stick out more to me than they might to other drivers since I knew the limits of the bugeye, and had that car as a direct comparison. I got used to differences quickly though. I really like the torque vectoring now.
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    Is this just an STI thing? I haven't been able to specifically find information on torque-vectoring for the wrx (and wikis link a number of other manufacturer's but not Scoob). Or is this inherent to the symmetrical AWD system?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    Is this just an STI thing? I haven't been able to specifically find information on torque-vectoring for the wrx (and wikis link a number of other manufacturer's but not Scoob). Or is this inherent to the symmetrical AWD system?
    There isn't any torque vectoring.

    Wheel-slip management on the WRX is passive and achieved via a viscous coupling on the center diff.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zataks View Post
    Is this just an STI thing? I haven't been able to specifically find information on torque-vectoring for the wrx (and wikis link a number of other manufacturer's but not Scoob). Or is this inherent to the symmetrical AWD system?
    It's not just an STI thing. Lots of Subaru 4 and 5EATs have it, but the WRX uses a viscous coupling, so its torque split at a given moment is a function of the mechanical design of the center differential, and is not adjustable by any computer system.

    My Outback (with a Nissan/Prodrive-sourced 5-speed auto) has a more similar internal design to the STI's DCCD system, but I don't have a dial to adjust the split. I don't beleive the design is identical by any means, but the 5EAT does have active electronic differential management, while the WRX does not. Does this make the WRX bad? Not at all. The viscous coupling, while a primitive design by modern standards, is in my opinion a very simple, yet effective form of AWD, and there are no computer nannies to get in the way.
    Last edited by Rambo; 09-16-2013 at 12:11 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by zax View Post
    There isn't any torque vectoring.

    Wheel-slip management on the WRX is passive and achieved via a viscous coupling on the center diff.
    To add to this, newer Subarus equipped with traction control use the brakes to apply more torque to wheels with traction. For example, if the left front wheel starts slipping, the computer will apply some braking to that wheel to force torque over to the right front wheel. I would guess this system was part of why Subaru dropped the limited slip rear differential off the newer cars: they can achieve the same basic effect electronically through the brakes.

    There are more advanced systems, like Honda's SH-AWD system that have electronically-controlled clutches in front, center, and rear differentials to bias torque to a specific wheel from within the drivetrain itself. Whether or not this system is "better" than the braking system is for you to decide. I'm not aware of many direct AWD comparisons with hard data, so I'll leave speculation out of it.
    Last edited by Rambo; 09-16-2013 at 12:15 PM.
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    Good info, thanks guys.
    Definitely no complaints about the WRX AWD--only broken traction twice now, both times intentionally, on hard turns, 1st gear WOT. Haven't had the balls (or the safe place) to push the AWD otherwise, though.

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    For the record, I HATE the traction control and am always using the disable button. I wish I could permanently disable it...(or search for how it's already been done).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    For the record, I HATE the traction control and am always using the disable button. I wish I could permanently disable it...(or search for how it's already been done).
    I feel the same way and have searched countless times, but haven't found anything. Will let you know if I find something.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    For the record, I HATE the traction control and am always using the disable button. I wish I could permanently disable it...(or search for how it's already been done).
    Quote Originally Posted by mcdbrendan View Post
    I feel the same way and have searched countless times, but haven't found anything. Will let you know if I find something.
    I would assume a timer relay would do the trick, assuming it's all ECU-controlled, and there's not a fuse you could pull. Upon igition, the relay would close for a few seconds, sending the disable signal to the ECU, then open again (basically act as though you held the button for a few seconds, then let go). If you put the relay in parallel with the OEM, you'd retain all stock functionality. You could add concealed toggle switch somewhere to enable/disable the relay, should you ever want TC at some point in the future. It's a really simple circuit to make, and could be merged cleanly into the stock harness.

    Before doing any wiring though, I'd hook up a DVM to the button and figure out what exactly happens when the button is pressed, and also time how long after the turning the key before the ECU has completed the self tests and the TC can be disabled.
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    Just throw a cel and don't clear it. Anytime I would get a cel (saying it like it was a frequent thing) the traction control light would be on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikie13 View Post
    For the record, I HATE the traction control and am always using the disable button. I wish I could permanently disable it...(or search for how it's already been done).
    This... this right here. The first time I broke traction and the little Japanese engineers in the ECU decided I was done having fun I about lost my biscuits.
    2013 STi Wagon.

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